Summon and Effects

[thompgc]

I know that spell effects end when the summon creature goes away, but what about other effects.

If a summoned creature (such as a monstrous spider, scorpion, ...) poisons something but dies before the secondary poison save occurs, does that save still need to be made. (Does death of the summoned creature, vs dispelling, vs duration on spell expired make any difference?)

Similarly what if the creature cause a disease (such as a bearded devil) - is the disease a non-issue?

What if a summoned spider creates a web (or uses its web attack) - does the web vanish when the creature does?

 

[frankthedm]

I know that spell effects end when the summon creature goes away, but what about other effects.

If a summoned creature (such as a monstrous spider, scorpion, ...) poisons something but dies before the secondary poison save occurs, does that save still need to be made. (Does death of the summoned creature, vs dispelling, vs duration on spell expired make any difference?)

Similarly what if the creature cause a disease (such as a bearded devil) - is the disease a non-issue?

What if a summoned spider creates a web (or uses its web attack) - does the web vanish when the creature does?

Thats how I read it.

 

[moritheil]

I know that spell effects end when the summon creature goes away, but what about other effects.

If a summoned creature (such as a monstrous spider, scorpion, ...) poisons something but dies before the secondary poison save occurs, does that save still need to be made. (Does death of the summoned creature, vs dispelling, vs duration on spell expired make any difference?)

It is possible that the spell ends when the summoned creature dies, anyhow. I can see arguments both ways.

A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It is possible that the spell ends when the summoned creature dies, anyhow. I can see arguments both ways.

Particularly convoluted reading:

Spells cast expire "when the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears".

If we assume that the death of a summoned creature (causing it to disappear) doesn't end the summoning spell - especially important in the case of 1d3 or 1d4+1 summoned creatures - then it may be that this condition is never fulfilled.

Let's say we summon a Lantern Archon, and it uses Continual Flame to make us an Everburning Torch. Then the duration of the Summons ends, the creature disappears, and the Continual Flame expires. Not much use there.

But now let's say we summon a Lantern Archon, and it uses Continual Flame to make us an Everburning Torch... and we kill it. It disappears. Some time later, as a separate event, the spell expires.

The event "the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears" never occurs - because by the time the spell ends, there's no creature to disappear! That conditional clause is not fulfilled, and so the Continual Flame doesn't run out...

-Hyp.

 

[moritheil]

Particularly convoluted reading:

The event "the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears" never occurs - because by the time the spell ends, there's no creature to disappear! That conditional clause is not fulfilled, and so the Continual Flame doesn't run out...

-Hyp.

Nice reductio.