Summon Creature Range

[ScionJustice]

Since there is a range on the summon monster spells, can I summon a earth elemental or other heavy creature in the air above my opponents so they'll fall on and crush them? I don't see anything in the rules that says I can't.

 

[Theroc]

Since there is a range on the summon monster spells, can I summon a earth elemental or other heavy creature in the air above my opponents so they'll fall on and crush them? I don't see anything in the rules that says I can't.

Not sure about whether or not you can, but if you can, the thing you summoned would take falling damage, methinks.

 

[DarkelvenSFi]

It's the DM's discretion. He'll make a choice on whether you can, and whether your alignment should shift as a result.

 

[Rhun]

Agree that it is completely the DM's discretion.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

and whether your alignment should shift as a result.

Why? Summoned creatures don't actually die or get harmed. I always thought it was odd when a Druid in the party would summon an animal to "detect traps" -- seemed cruel and un-Druidly. But people do that kind of stuff all the time. Flanking buddy and meat shield are two of the main combat reasons things are summoned, which is similarly cruel and likely to lead to pain and suffering for the summoned creature.

 

[DarkelvenSFi]

Why? Summoned creatures don't actually die or get harmed. I always thought it was odd when a Druid in the party would summon an animal to "detect traps" -- seemed cruel and un-Druidly. But people do that kind of stuff all the time. Flanking buddy and meat shield are two of the main combat reasons things are summoned, which is similarly cruel and likely to lead to pain and suffering for the summoned creature.

I always thought it was cruel and un-druidly as well. Our party has a druid, and the other players have tried several times to get him to sacrifice his summonings for the greater good; he's always declined.

So it really does come down to the DMs discretion for whether such an action would alter your alignment. I cannot imagine happily sending a dog down a passage way, and feeling relieved that it set off a trap; watiching it yelp and whine pittifully would naturally set me on edge; thus I cannot see it as a neutral thing to do.

It comes down to cognitive disonance. They've become so accoustomed to these summoned creatures dying for them, that it's commonplace and overlooked. That doesn't make it 'right'.

But saying all that.. it does come down to how the DM dictates that it works. I'm not arguing that others should follow this rule, only explaining how it is in my game

 

[Edheldur]

Since there is a range on the summon monster spells, can I summon a earth elemental or other heavy creature in the air above my opponents so they'll fall on and crush them? I don't see anything in the rules that says I can't.

Actually, the rules do say you can't:

Conjuration

Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool), actually transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling), heal (healing), transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation), or create objects or effects on the spot (creation). Creatures you conjure usually, but not always, obey your commands.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.

 

[Starbuck_II]

So it really does come down to the DMs discretion for whether such an action would alter your alignment. I cannot imagine happily sending a dog down a passage way, and feeling relieved that it set off a trap; watiching it yelp and whine pittifully would naturally set me on edge; thus I cannot see it as a neutral thing to do.

What is that same dog was actually unhurt the next time you summoned it every single time?

Sure, it feels pain, but it doesn't die for helping you.

 

[Rhun]

Actually, the rules do say you can't:

Nice catch, Edheldur. I had never noted that line before.

 

[DarkelvenSFi]

What is that same dog was actually unhurt the next time you summoned it every single time?

Sure, it feels pain, but it doesn't die for helping you.

You've got some understanding of it feeling pain.. but that doesn't bother you?

Any claims that it doesn't die circumvent the issue; you're still making a choice to have someone else feel pain in place of you suffering. If you can see a reason for you to not want get hit by a trap, any summoned creature is going to have the same desire, and you're disregarding that for your own sake.