Summon Monster duration

[Xahn'Tyr]

This spell summons an outsider (extraplanar creature) that
attacks the character's enemies. It appears where the character
designates and acts immediately, on the character's turn. It
attacks the character's opponents to the best of its ability. If
the character can communicate with the outsider, the character
can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to
perform other actions. Summoned creatures act normally on the
last round of the spell and disappear at the end of their turn.

I'm not real clear on exactly how many chances to attack a summoned critter should get. My first thought was that it would basically be 1/level. But the mechanics involved here make me think it might be 1/level + 1 instead.

It is a full round casting time. The player (a 1st level caster) starts casting on his turn in round 1. The player then finishes the casting right before his turn in round 2. The beasty shows up right before the character's turn and attacks on his turn. So far so good.

Now the character's next turn comes around in round 3. Does the spell's duration (1 round in this case) end right before his turn, or does it expire during his turn? It seems to me that this is the last round of the spell and summoned creatures act normally on the last round of the spell and disappear at the end of their turn. That would allow on last attack before they went home.

Or is the first round the last round for first level summonings? If it appears right before the it's turn and then disappears at the end of it's turn, it certainly hasn't been there for a round (ie. it is not a target or a flanker for everyone else who will go before the player's next turn). If it has to be there for a round, and it only disappears at the end of it's turn, then it has to be in existance for level+1 round's worth of actions.

 

[IceBear]

Here's how I've been playing it.

Round 1 - Wizard starts casting the spell.

Round 2 - Monster appears in and attacks. Wizard can take some other action.

Round 3 - Monster attacks and then disappears.

IceBear

 

[Greatwyrm]

Our interpretation has been that the summoned critter gets one round of actions per round of duration. Here's an example with a first level caster:

Round 1--Begin full-round casting.

Round 2--Just as your turn comes up, you get done casting. At the very beginning of your turn, the critter shows up. You and the critter act at the same time.

Round 3--Just as your turn comes up, the 1 round duration ends. Critter goes away. It's now your turn again, to do with as you please.

Otherwise, you're upping the power of the Summons by giving an extra round of duration for free. This may not seem like much at low levels, but the summoned critters still flank, block areas, threaten areas, etc. One round is everybody gets one turn to do things.

 

[Artoomis]

Greatwyrm has it right.

 

[IceBear]

I think you are missing this line of the spell:

Summoned creatures act normally on the last round of the spell and disappear at the end of their turn.

So, if the spell was cast in round 1, and the monster didn't appear until round 2, and in round 3, the duration ends the above line suggests that it gets to take an action before disappearing. Thus the monster either disappears at the end of round 2, or it disappears in round 3. If it disappears in round 3, it gets an attack first.

I also rule that the monster goes just before the wizard, and thus could disappear before the wizard could benefit from the flanking bonus in the last round.

IceBear

 

[Greatwyrm]

No. I understand the "act normally on the last round" bit. However, the first round is the last round of a one round duration spell. What I'm saying is that the spell never carries over into round 3 for the creature to get an action. It ends just before the casters turn to take his third round.

 

[IceBear]

Then it disappears at the end of round 2? Is that what you're saying, because it's not what you posted.

I guess my fundamental misunderstanding is when the spell takes effect. I was under the impression that if the action took one round to cast, then it didn't actually get cast until just before your initiative in the next round.

My understanding is that a Casting time of 1 round is fundamentally different than a Full Round Action - which completes in the same round that you started and allows a 5ft step before or after.

IceBear

IceBear

 

[Greatwyrm]

It goes away at the very end of round 2. That's what I meant to get across, but I didn't choose my words well.

 

[IceBear]

I guess my problem is two fold:

1) I thought that a 1 round spell cast in round one didn't take effect until just before your action in Round 2, and thus disappeared just before your action in Round 3.

2) The line about the monsters acting normally on the last round of the spell seems redundant to me, unless they intended for the monster to take an action just before it disappeared. I mean if that sentence wasn't there, I'd just have the monster disappear at the beginning of Round 3 like any other 1 round duration spell, but because it is there, I would allow the monster to take an action just before it disappeared.

IceBear

 

[Artoomis]

Let's review the rules on casting time and duration, shall we? Just to be sure there is no confusion.

A spell that takes 1 full round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of the character's turn in the round after the character began casting the spell. The character then acts normally after the spell is completed.

Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or some other increment. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends.

So what happens with a casting tiome 1 round, 1 round duration?

Round 1. Begin Casting.
Round 2. Just before your turn, the spell comes into effect. It lasts for one round, so it lasts until just before your intiative in the next round.
Round 3. The spell is already gone - it only lasted one round.

Let's apply that to Summon Monster.

Round 1. Begin casting.
Round 2. Monster appears just before your turn and attacks on your intiative. This is the last round for the spell as it only lasts one round, so the monsters "disappear at the end of their turn," whereas you might expect them to normally stick around until just before your initiative in the next round.
Round 3. The monsters are already gone.

The reason you need the line:

Summoned creatures act normally on the last round of the spell and disappear at the end of their turn.

is because under the normal rules for duration the monsters would not disappear right after acting, but would still be around until just before your next turn - providing additional targets for your enemies. This is not the case for Summon Monster - the spell description creates a specific exception to the normal duration rules for what happens to summoned monsters after they make their last attack.

Does this make it clearer?