Summon Monster Training?

[Clay_More]

My group of players recently found out that they had to travel the planes and enter into a Formian hive to locate an object that incidently is located beneath the location where the hive is. Since they have a LN wizard in the group, they got the idea that they could use his summon monster spells to practice before they go down there. So, they said that they would use a month to practice, where the wizard would cast Summon Monster every day to create various forms of Formians that the fighter and the ranger could practice on. I know that you wouldn't get any XP bonus for doing this, but would the characters become any better at fighting Formians?

They basically train to anticipate the moves & combat abilities of their opponent. Now, since Formians are pretty mindless (at least the lesser forms) they should have fairly equal combat tactics.

Yet, if I allow them to receive a bonus, what will be next? Training against humans to get a constant bonus against humans?

My thoughts on this have been, that any intelligent and creative creatures will fight differently. You need very intimate knowledge of them, like a Ranger, to receive any benefit. More mindless creatures, such as Elementals, Constructs, Animals and Plants will probably have very similar fighting styles, since their fighting style is dictated by either their construction or their genetics. I would believe pretty much all wolves have very similar combat tactics (flanking, making rapid lunges after vulnerable spots, etc.) for example. Elementals probably also have a very similar fighting style, since their bodies dictate their combat maneouvres more than anything. Same goes for constructs & mindless undead.

So, would the Month have been in vain, or can a group of players prepare for an encounter in this manner?

 

[Thain]

Well, I don't belive you shoudl come up with any sort of math or system rule to represent training, orther than the extremly detailed knowledge that the Ranger class (for instance) would grant, I also don't belive that players should be punished.

I think we'll all admit that your PCs have come up with a very sound, reasonable and logical plan... they shoudl get something for the hardwork; I'd recommend having any Formorians they fight in training act the same way the Formorians in the adventure will. Of course, if your not going to roleplay the practice (which I prolyl wouldn't myself) I'd just drop hints during the upcoming fight:

"As Redgar downs the first Warrior, Ember you notice that the rearmost Warrior appears to be..."

DnD combat is rather tactical, by giving away certain moves the monsters are making you give smart players and edge. If they know, for example, that Warrior Formor will almost always try to flank then the players have an edge, even if it is one that can't be represented by numbers.

One cavet, the formorians share a hive-mind, any tactics or tricks the party uses won't be effective for long. Although they aren't the borg and will still be vulernable to the party's weapons and spells they will leanr to adapt to the parties tactics.

"Um, Queen? This is Drone #24601... Yeah, they've got a Mage that tosses an awful lot of Lighting Bolts. Please advise?"

"Stop walking in single-file lines! And tell the Workers to say out of the 5' x 5' halways!"

 

[Clay_More]

Well, it just seems illogical that they would gain such a tactical advantage (since the Monsters are controlled by the caster, including their tactics). The only thing the caster doesn't control is the exact execution of the monsters combat moves...

"Okay, Now move your sword arm up so that the sword gains a horisontal position behind your back. Good, now take your sword arm and swing it forward untill your arm reaches a position where it is vertically aligned with your body. Try to achieve maximum velocity with your arm while doing so"

So, the Formians would probably fight in the same manner as natural Formians, yet their tactics would change according to their controller (caster or queen).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, in the absence of instructions, the summoned creatures simply attack the caster's enemies. If they're intelligent and disciplined creatures, it makes sense that they would attack in an intelligent and disciplined fashion, using whatever tactics come naturally to them.

-Hyp.

 

[smetzger]

My group of players recently found out
So, would the Month have been in vain, or can a group of players prepare for an encounter in this manner?

The Ranger can now choose Formarian as his next favored enemy and the Fighetr can take a level of Ranger and take Formarian as his favored enemy.

 

[Clay_More]

The Ranger can now choose Formarian as his next favored enemy and the Fighetr can take a level of Ranger and take Formarian as his favored enemy.

I think this would upset my players a little bit. Havent met a Ranger yet that would consider making Formians his favoured enemy. Havent met a Fighter that would care to take a level as Ranger simply to have Formians as favoured enemy.

 

[Clay_More]

The problem is, while I was thinking over it. If I give the players a simple +1 bonus to hit or something like this, the Ranger will feel cheated (even if it isn't a large bonus at all).

 

[shilsen]

Maybe you could come up with some basic formian tactics and use them consistently with the summoned monsters. And then do the same for the first few groups of formians the PCs meet in the hive. This should make them feel that their efforts were worth it, without having to be quanitified with bonuses of any kind.

Then, of course, you should introduce the formians which are being controlled by their queen and have totally different tactics (preferably very good ones) and mop the floor with the party

 

[Murrdox]

I agree that the characters shouldn't get the bonuses of a "favored enemy" versus the formians... as a DM I would constantly tip the players off as to what the formians look like they're about to do.

Of course, as it's been pointed out... the formians may start acting a bit differently when within their hive.

 

[Keith]

I don’t think there is any need for a game mechanics bonus for this. You could fight a foe over and over, gaining substantial knowledge of it, and not get a bonus in D&D. However, you can apply what you actually do learn about an enemy- it is roleplaying. In this case, if the players pick up on how the creatures fight, well and good. If they don’t learn anything useful, well, that is perfectly possible too. I don’t think, to be honest, that it is such a clever idea that you should worry much about rewarding it. Shouldn’t they be off taking care of business instead?! Just kidding.
It is also actually kind of cruel; I would question anyone good being involved in such heartless slaughter of harmless creatures (since they won’t attack the group; actually, will they even fight back?).

Cheers