Summoning: Casting times and preferences

[Kunimatyu]

For anyone who's never tried it, summoning 1d4+1 (Fiendish?) Dire Weasels is awesome. 1d4 Con damage each round they stay attached, and, well, they're weasels.

"I, Fistibulos the Unknowable, reach into the Infinite Planes and bind its energy into tidy weasel-shaped packages! Get them!"

 

[Archade]

I think the full round casting is necessary for balance (although rapid spell is a great way to get around it).

Individually the critters aren't that impressive - summon monster II gets you a CR1 critter. However, you can keep summoning them. So by round 3, you can have 3 CR1 beasties nipping at the bad guys' heels.

Something else to consider - a popular tactic with my players is someone to spring for a summon monster scroll two levels higher than they can personally cast, and use it in case of emergencies. That's really potent. If it were a standard action to read the scroll, they'd be swimming in celestial dire lions ...

 

[TerraDave]

The summon spells are used and used well (but, as Frank points out, not nec as raw firepower) at least in my own campaing.

I do agree that full round casting is a little clunky, and the stat-blocks a hastle (thank goodness for the SRD). But still fun, overall.

 

[TerraDave]

For anyone who's never tried it, summoning 1d4+1 (Fiendish?) Dire Weasels is awesome. 1d4 Con damage each round they stay attached, and, well, they're weasels.

"I, Fistibulos the Unknowable, reach into the Infinite Planes and bind its energy into tidy weasel-shaped packages! Get them!"

The dire weasel is one of my favs to inflict on my players.

 

[Lanefan]

A few things:

1: I notice no option in the poll suggesting 1 round is too *short*. Not that I'm suggesting it is, but some might think so...

2: The 3.x (not sure if also true in 2.x) idea of being able to choose what you summon rather than have it rolled on a random table makes the spell much more powerful...and much less fun. I'd have it that the choose-able version of the spell would be a level higher than the random version.

3: In general, I like the idea of *all* spells taking time to cast, rather than casting and resolving at the same time. But then, I *am* a 1e kid...

Lanefan

 

[Arnwyn]

The druid IMC uses SNA all the time. I prefer the 1 round casting time, thanks.

(though I admit they can be pretty potent)

Done and done.

 

[MarkB]

A few things:

1: I notice no option in the poll suggesting 1 round is too *short*. Not that I'm suggesting it is, but some might think so...

2: The 3.x (not sure if also true in 2.x) idea of being able to choose what you summon rather than have it rolled on a random table makes the spell much more powerful...and much less fun. I'd have it that the choose-able version of the spell would be a level higher than the random version.

3: In general, I like the idea of *all* spells taking time to cast, rather than casting and resolving at the same time. But then, I *am* a 1e kid...

Lanefan

You could adopt the PHBII's idea of a Channelled spell:

• Cast it as a Swift action and you get a random pick from the next lower Summon list.
• Cast it as a standard action and you get a random pick from the spell's list.
• Cast it as a 1 round spell and it works as normal.
• Spend 2 rounds casting it and you get 1d3-1 additional random creatures.

 

[Henry]

The druid IMC uses SNA all the time. I prefer the 1 round casting time, thanks.


Done and done.

How in the world does he ever complete them? Usually, on a battlefield, someone standing in place for the entire time casting a spell between everybody's turn is practically marching with a sign that says, "whack me with a weapon"! That's my biggest problem with them - in my experience you have to cast them outside of combat to get use out of them, and you often never know when combat is going to erupt.

 

[Voadam]

My complaints about the summon spells:

The 1 round casting time is an annoying mechanic. The fact that there are only certain combos of fiendish versus celestial options are annoying. Expanding summoning lists versus limited number of types total is an annoying discrepancy. I hate the random numbers for lower level summonings. I particularly hate getting a lower level one and randomly determining that I got the same number I could have gotten on a higher level one. Buffs should not be random. There should be easily accessible stat blocks for the summoned creatures, applying templates and boosts from augment summoning are a pain.

I think that covers it

I'd prefer a power formulae and certain numbers that can be known (based on a stat would work) with the spell being learnable multiple times instead of getting everything on a list.

 

[Arnwyn]

How in the world does he ever complete them? Usually, on a battlefield, someone standing in place for the entire time casting a spell between everybody's turn is practically marching with a sign that says, "whack me with a weapon"! That's my biggest problem with them - in my experience you have to cast them outside of combat to get use out of them, and you often never know when combat is going to erupt.

*shrug* A combination of things, including (but not exhaustive):

- good tactical positioning at the outset
- good defense from the fighters
- good Concentration check modifier (really - what spellcaster botches a Concentration check these days?)