Summoning: Casting times and preferences

[Voadam]

*shrug* A combination of things, including (but not exhaustive):

- good tactical positioning at the outset
- good defense from the fighters
- good Concentration check modifier (really - what spellcaster botches a Concentration check these days?)

Add in invisibility.

 

[frankthedm]

Something else to consider - a popular tactic with my players is someone to spring for a summon monster scroll two levels higher than they can personally cast, and use it in case of emergencies. That's really potent. If it were a standard action to read the scroll, they'd be swimming in celestial dire lions ...

SO, what happen when the scroll mishap occurs?

 

[Mouseferatu]

You could adopt the PHBII's idea of a Channelled spell:

• Cast it as a Swift action and you get a random pick from the next lower Summon list.
• Cast it as a standard action and you get a random pick from the spell's list.
• Cast it as a 1 round spell and it works as normal.
• Spend 2 rounds casting it and you get 1d3-1 additional random creatures.

*blink*

*blink, blink*

You, sir, are hereby officially granted the title of "Genius." Expect many a kudo to arrive via US Post.



Seriously, that's a fantastic idea. I may tweak the details a bit, but I'm definitely stealing the general concept for future use.

 

[Joshua Randall]

(Too lazy to read entire thread, so apologies if this was already said.)

I think the primary problem with summon spells has little to do with CT and a lot to do with bookkeeping.

First, summoned creatures often have the fiendish or celestial template applied to them. That means you've got to look up Eagle in the MM appendix, then look up the Celestial template, then apply it. And that's before you get to move the creature or make it attack something.

The bookkeeping gets even worse when you add things like Augment Summoning, Animal Growth, or whatever buff spells the party has in place or chooses to cast while the summonees are present.

Second, adding additional combatants to an encounter inevitably makes it slower. This is a minor detail at low level but a major pain at high level, when the summonees have many abilities (often the reason you summoned them). This creates additional bookkeeping for the players, who have to keep track of the creature and what it can do, and for the DM, who has to decide if the monsters react to the summonee by attacking it, or ignore it and go after the PCs, or what.

Third, the proliferation of monsters that have an entry like "This creature can be summoned with a summon monster N spell" just exacerbate the bookkeeping problems. Now the player has to keep a list a non-Monster Manual creatures he can summon. And then he needs either another book or a photocopy of the book's pages. This is similar to how wild shape and shapechange get out of hand with more and more monster books being published.

I like the idea of summoning, but frankly it's too much of a hassle to use (as a PC) or to allow (as a DM).

 

[brehobit]

Those of you complaining about all the work needed to get the stats right, infiniti has posted a zip file with a pdf of all the creatures with and without the augment summoning stuff figured out.

Mighty mighty handy. Won't play a caster without it.

Mark

 

[Archade]

SO, what happen when the scroll mishap occurs?

The players live with that chance -- really, it means the scroll will work unless they roll a 1 or 2 on a d20. And for a few hundred gold pieces, it's a pretty good insurance policy.

 

[Voadam]

Those of you complaining about all the work needed to get the stats right, infiniti has posted a zip file with a pdf of all the creatures with and without the augment summoning stuff figured out.

Mighty mighty handy. Won't play a caster without it.

Mark

Link?

 

[GQuail]

You could adopt the PHBII's idea of a Channelled spell:

• Cast it as a Swift action and you get a random pick from the next lower Summon list.
• Cast it as a standard action and you get a random pick from the spell's list.
• Cast it as a 1 round spell and it works as normal.
• Spend 2 rounds casting it and you get 1d3-1 additional random creatures.

This really is a fantastic idea, and one I intend to use as soon as possible.

 

[Sejs]

The players live with that chance -- really, it means the scroll will work unless they roll a 1 or 2 on a d20. And for a few hundred gold pieces, it's a pretty good insurance policy.

Or in the case of mishap, not live with it.

 

[pizzaboy_15]

I play with a high level wizard and due to him being the guy who calls up expendable support, we feel he should pop off as many of these as possible in 5 rounds and be able to get out of combat! This keeps the druids kill death ratio in <b>Positive figures</b>