Summoning Stuff

[Shirt Guy John]

Alright, I surrender!

After a moment's contemplation, I have to agree that the elemental templates are not better than the celestial or fiendish templates.... well, not too good to be overpowering (i still think that a few are better... )

Scratch the feat then.

How 'bout the following additions to the list?:
*SM II: Celestial Porpoise
*SM III: Celestial Dire Hawk, Fiendish Dire Toad (both from MotW)

The befefit of always calling the same creature was that you could give it equipment that it could use by visiting its home plane and seeking it out. I don't remember anything else being mentioned.

The idea of droping a creature down a slot is appealing, but I don't think that that would keep the spells balanced. If you used all of your summon monster II spells to call up a type of creature, then used your summon monster I's to call the same kind, albeit the same one every time, it still might be unbalancing.

Still, I'm very restrictive with stuff, as you can see.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

see pg 96
Variant: Summoning Individual Monsters

 

[Angelsboi]

DMG Pg 96

What i do is i roll the monster stats, adding the racial mods and such and then slap the template they want on there. They can name it and describe it but it does have a mind of its own so i play it.

I had a character based off a final fantasy game and she was summoning ifrit (a humoind with a SM II stat and elemental template stashed on there)

 

[Shirt Guy John]

Here we go. This feat is basically the same thing as the variant, although it allows for greater choice and flexibility.

Summon Ally(General)
No flavor for now.

Requirements: Augmented Summoning

Benefits: The Summoner can enlist the aalyship of several extra-planar creatures, and call on these allies with standard Summon Monster spells. Initially, he may enlist the aid of a number of creatures equal to his caster level. He must spend at least 1d4 days to enlist these first allies. Additionally, when a summoner advances a level, he may choose to add a specific creature to his list of individual creatures that are always available. These creatures are treated as NPCs for most game purposes. Similarly to the "Summoning Individual Monsters" variant in the DMG (pg. 96), the summoner can always choose to summon one of his Allies when summoning any number of creatures of the ally's type. If a creature is slain when summoned, it cannot be summoned again for 24 hours. If the crature is acctually slain, the summoner loses access to that ally until it is raised or until he can find a replacement (This usually takes 1d4 months to find or contact a willing ally). The summoner can have a number of allies equal to his caster level at any given time.

Note: A Wizard can choose to take this as one of his bonus feats. This feat differs from the standard variant rule in that the summoner can choose whether or not he wants to summon one of his allies when casting an appropriate Summon Monster spell. The rule and the feat would work together, at the DM's discression, so that this feat would simply allow the caster to have more options when summoning creatures, as he could choose between allies or his standard creatures.

 

[green slime]

OK, so that looks cool.

But why take it? There is no increase in power. Using a general Summon Monster I get the same kind of monster, just no name, but without limitations of the dying kind...

If you use 3d6 to roll the stats, you could even end up with a worse monster.

How about allowing the character a 25 point Stat purchase for the Allies? That might lead to allies of an extreme type. Like Dire Rats with Dex 27... But is that really that bad? An alternative would be to allow access to higher level monster earlier, but with no increase to Stats. I'll need to think about this a while

 

[LoneWolf23]

My problem is...

I want to keep the standard Monster Summoning spells, but I have no clue as to how I should arrange the monsters I want to add to the present list of Monster by spell level.

Is it by Challenge Rating, or by Hit Dice? Or should I just improvise and guesstimate?

 

[Shirt Guy John]

From what I've seen, the templated animals are the only predictable summoning creatures. For the first few levels (I believe up to SM IV or so), the animals have CR equal to the (Summon monster spell level-1). From about V to VI, the animals have CR equal to the SM spell level. From VII to IX, the animals have CRs equal to 1+Spell Level. These are all without applying templates, by the way. For other creatures, do what the books say to do with spells; compare the creature to other creatures on the list, and place it where you think it would be based on the comparisons. If I had to guess from the list in the PH, when in doubt OVER-estimate the creature's capabilities and put it up a level higher then you would want it to be.

As for my last feat, I would allow the "allies" to be generated with the standard rolling method (4d6 6 times, throwing out the lowest in each roll, arranged any way the summoner wants), or with a point buy one step lower than the point buy that the PC was allowed (Minimum 23 point). I don't think that the option of better creatures whom you can equip with magical items is that weak (but hey, I realize that I'm still a jerk when it comes to giving the PC's an advantage).

If it really is too underpowered, why not change it to mimic the Leadership feat more?

(Just throwin' out ideas here)

Let's say that the summoner still can have the same number of "Allies" (Can anyone think of a better term for them? I'm not too good with names or titles...), but the Summoner can also designate one of the "Allies" as his uh.... "Planar Cohort"? This creature, if intelegent (Int at least 3), can gain character levels as a standard NPC. The cohort can be summoned once each hour for the standard duration of Summon Monster and it gains experience for any creature it slays or effectively combats while it was summoned. It also gains experience for traps and anything else that gives experience. Like always, I think that this is WAY too powerful without some additional drawbacks. Requirements would increase to:

Character Level 6+, Augmented Summoning

and the Sumoner would give up one of his highest spell slots (any that he could cast SM with) as long as he had a "Planar Cohort". The cohort would have the standard level limit as presented in the sidebar on the Leadership feat (using the caster level for the leadership score), but with his effective cohort level equal to (Class Levels + Normal CR).


The other way that I can think to make this a feat that people would acctually want to take, is to say that when you summon one of your "Allies", your caster level is treated as twice the standard caster level, effectively doubling duration and increasing the range of the spell.


Obviously, I really have no idea, though I think the feat is something to work on.

 

[Vhane]

If the mage calls his "planer cohort" he owes it an equal amount of effort. This would make up for the power difference and open up new adventure ideas (plus smart wizards would try and pay ahead with these cohorts). Just a balancing idea since you were looking.

 

[Shirt Guy John]

Are you saying that he should have to quest for it, like a Paladin quests for his Mount? Or are you just saying that the Summoner owes his "Planar Cohort" the same amount of respect that the creature gives him?

Either way, I like the ideas, though Planar travel would limit this feat to more higher-level characters, though that could be a balancing issue in itself...

 

[Vhane]

Questing for allies could be a lotta fun. Would make the Wizard wish for ranks in Diplomacy.

I was shooting for the "you wash my hand (or kill my foe) and I'll wash yours (for a bit of the same)", This could work for information, housework whatever comes up. If the wizard doesn't want to reciprocate he should have to cough up XPs! From his buddy's perspective it doesn't matter, life force IS THE commodity of the Realms beyond, so if you wont kill someone for me since I did that for you, you owe me 500 per level of that foe (this xp sacrifice would work like the loss of a familiar it could cost a level)