Sunblade w/ Weapon Finesse

[Kalendraf]

I've given out a magic item with an ability similar to the Sunblade property of being Bastard Sword or short sword in terms of proficiency.

The question arose as to whether Weapon Finesse feat applies toward this. The weapon is medium, so it wouldn't be normally eligible, but maybe the Sunblade's ability lets it be eligible. I wasn't sure, so I figured I'd ask here.

Sun Blade: This sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, a sun blade is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use. (In other words, the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and deals bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword.) Any individual able to use either a bastard sword or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of a sun blade. Likewise, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in short sword and bastard sword apply equally, but the benefits of those feats do not stack.

WEAPON FINESSE [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: A fighter may select Weapon Finesse as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Natural weapons are always considered light weapons.

A second question, of much less importance, is how much this ability should be priced? Seems likes it might be a fixed cost of some sort.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I'd say that the 'weight and ease of use' qualifier would make it eligible for weapon finesse. A rapier is a medium finessable weapon because it is light and quick, not because it is short.

As for pricing, I'd suggest +1. It does on average +2 damage over any other finessable weapon, but has no + to hit. It still a martial weapon, so there's no feat savings for those classes that only get simple weapon proficiency.

 

[Destil]

"but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword."
Such awful wording . I think the intention is "This is treated as a light weapon for a character of the same size as the sword" in 3.5 or "This is treated as a weapon of size small" in 3.0.

In either case the intention would be to allow finesse, as well as use while grappled and the like.

However I'm sure you could make an argument that the bonuses, being so poorly defined, apply only to the specific examples of weapon focus and specialization too.

 

[Sejs]

Yes, it's finessable.

I'd place the ability as a +1 bonus.

 

[Kalendraf]

I forgot to ask something else. In terms of 2-weapon fighting, can the weapon then be wielded as an off-hand weapon and still be treated as a light weapon to reduce the penalty? I'm assuming that is probably true if it is eligible for finesse.

The goal in giving the weapon this ability was to provide a means for the rogue in the party to wield it without requiring him to take the exotic weapon feat. I thought of the sunsword's ability and liked the concept there. However, it may turn out to be more powerful than expected if it can easily qualify as a light off-hand weapon.

The weapon is intelligent though, so it could just refuse to fight if the character tries to wield another weapon with it. Not the most elegant solution perhaps, but it's at least an option.

 

[Sejs]

I forgot to ask something else. In terms of 2-weapon fighting, can the weapon then be wielded as an off-hand weapon and still be treated as a light weapon to reduce the penalty?

Yes, it can.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes, it can.

And can you add Power Attack bonus to damage with it at the same time as using it with Finesse?

Can you add Power Attack bonus to damage with it, ever?

Does a Sun Blade gain 1.5x Str bonus to damage if you wield it with two hands, or - since its weight and ease of use are that of a light weapon- do two hands make no difference?

-Hyp.

 

[Mouseferatu]

And can you add Power Attack bonus to damage with it at the same time as using it with Finesse?

Can you add Power Attack bonus to damage with it, ever?

Does a Sun Blade gain 1.5x Str bonus to damage if you wield it with two hands, or - since its weight and ease of use are that of a light weapon- do two hands make no difference?

-Hyp.

Well, judging by the following...

Any individual able to use either a bastard sword or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of a sun blade.

...I can tell you how I'd interpret the rules, if asked.

Yes, you can power attack with a sunblade, if you're treating it as a bastard sword. Yes, you gain the 1.5 X strength if wielding it two-handed.

But, you cannot do that at the same time you're finessing the weapon. I interpret the wording under the sunblade to mean that you can wield it as a bastard sword or as a short sword, so I'd say you have to decide which "style" you're using at any given time.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

But, you cannot do that at the same time you're finessing the weapon. I interpret the wording under the sunblade to mean that you can wield it as a bastard sword or as a short sword, so I'd say you have to decide which "style" you're using at any given time.

So you couldn't use Weapon Finesse on it while Power Attacking because you're using it in "bastard sword style"...but Weapon Focus (short sword) and Weapon Specialization (short sword) would still apply?

 

[Darklone]

So you couldn't use Weapon Finesse on it while Power Attacking because you're using it in "bastard sword style"...but Weapon Focus (short sword) and Weapon Specialization (short sword) would still apply?

I'm with Mouseferature here.

Let's assume a fighter with WF and WS shortswords and weapon finesse as mentioned.

He can either
- use the sunblade like a shortsword: he gains the benefits of his feats
- or use it as a bastard sword: None of the mentioned shortsword benefits (except for that nifty *2 multiplier while using power attack with a twohanded weapon).