[Sunder] as an AoO.

[Melkor]

I am sure this has been covered, and probably many times, but I couldn't find the answer...so...

Can a person who get's an Attack of Opportunity on an opponent use Sunder as an AoO against that opponent ?

If so, since Sunder draws an AoO, does the opponent get his own AoO against the person attacking with Sunder before the person attack with Sunder gets to use Sunder as his AoO ?

Thanks.

 

[frankthedm]

I am sure this has been covered, and probably many times, but I couldn't find the answer...so...

Can a person who get's an Attack of Opportunity on an opponent use Sunder as an AoO against that opponent ?

If so, since Sunder draws an AoO, does the opponent get his own AoO against the person attacking with Sunder before the person attack with Sunder gets to use Sunder as his AoO ?

Thanks.

Big argument on this one. Some folks feel it is just an attack option, others feel it can only be done as a standard action.

I am not sure what wotc has said on the matter.

 

[Hypersmurf]

To answer your second question without addressing your first, I'll do a global replace of 'Sunder' with 'Disarm'.

"If so, since Disarm draws an AoO, does the opponent get his own AoO against the person attacking with Disarm before the person attack with Disarm gets to use Disarm as his AoO?"

Yes. And, indeed, the opponent can attempt to Disarm as his AoO. This will provoke yet another AoO; if the attacker has Combat Reflexes, this means he can take this AoO before the AoO provoked by his own AoO is resolved.

To address your first question, I'd point you to Table 8-2 in the PHB, and invite you to compare the relative placements of Sunder vs Disarm, Trip, and Grapple, as well as any footnotes they might carry.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

To address your first question, I'd point you to Table 8-2 in the PHB, and invite you to compare the relative placements of Sunder vs Disarm, Trip, and Grapple, as well as any footnotes they might carry.

-Hyp.

As well as the actual text on Sunder, and what the FAQ has to say about it.

 

[Melkor]

Thanks to the both of you for the info.

Hypersmurf, the placement of disarm on that table with the '7' footnote (and the location of Sunder under Standard Actions) answers the question well enough for me to make my own judgement call in-game.

Thanks again.

Edit to Add: Where can I find how magic weapons play into the mix of Sundering ?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Where can I find how magic weapons play into the mix of Sundering ?

Each point of enhancement bonus (not market price modifier) adds +2 hardness and +10 hit points.

You can find it in the DMG under Magic Weapons, or in the PHB under Breaking and Entering: Smashing an Object. Note that the DMG entry is incorrect until you apply the errata.

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

Rather than the rest of us diehards crapping in your thread and rehashing old arguments (and reopening old wounds), have a look at this most recent thread (last response on 18Jul06) on the topic of Sunder substituting as a melee attack or requiring a Standard Action.

Sunder as an AOO?

 

[Artoomis]

The relevant entry from the FAQ is:

Is sunder a special standard action or is it a melee
attack variant? It has its own entry on the actions table, but
the text describing it refers to it as a melee attack. Is sunder
a melee attack only in the sense of hitting something with a
melee weapon, or is sunder a true melee attack?

Sunder is a special kind of melee attack. If it were a special
standard action, its description would say so (as the descriptive
text for the Manyshot feat says).
If you make a full attack, and you have multiple attacks
from a high base attack bonus, you can sunder more than once,
or attack and sunder, or some other combination of attacking
and sundering.
Sunder does indeed get its own entry in Table 8-2: Actions
in Combat in the Player’s Handbook. It needs one because
unlike a regular melee attack, sunder provokes an attack of
opportunity (although not if you have the Improved Sunder
feat).
You can also disarm, grapple, or trip as a melee attack (or
attack of opportunity).

The confusion on this point is evidenced by the many dscussions of the text vs. the table, and the FAQ does just what it is supposed to do - come down squarely on one side of the issue.

This can be (and still is) discussed ad nauseum, but I use it as a melee attack while other use it as a standard action. The choice is yours (and/or the DM's) to make.

 

[frankthedm]

All sunder on AoO does is encourage PCs to buy Adamantine weapons. The cost is low enough to be a "no duh" choice for one's favored weapon. Disarm is much more efficient at negating the action that provoked the AoO.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Each point of enhancement bonus (not market price modifier) adds +2 hardness and +10 hit points.

You can find it in the DMG under Magic Weapons, or in the PHB under Breaking and Entering: Smashing an Object. Note that the DMG entry is incorrect until you apply the errata.

-Hyp.

Funny, I just had to find and look this up tonight. It is on page 222 of the 3.5 DMG, top paragraph (sad I memorized that). In order for a magic weapon to sunder the other (or a shield), it has to have an equal or greater enhancement bonus. So a +1 weapon could not sunder a +2 weapon. A +2 weapon could sunder a +1 or +2 weapon. And so on...

Not sure what Hype is talking about in regards to errata, but this is straight from the 3.5 DMG.