D&D 5E Super Deadly 5E?

[DEFCON 1]

There are so many different ways to make the game "deadlier" if you really want to. In addition to all the variant stuff in the DMG, you can even do stuff like just remove healing and resurrection spells from the game. Take out Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Revivify, Raise Dead etc. and all the rest. If the recovery from injury/death via magical means is removed and all recovery is by natural recovery only... then voila, your game will be "deadlier".

Or let's be honest and more to the point... the game will be "slower". Because since nobody wants to have their characters die, they will just run away and go do the non-magical recovery route for however long you've set the rules for. Then and only then will they go out adventuring again. Which is fine if you as the DM are okay with extended breaks between adventures (or even in the middle of adventures), but my guess is most DMs don't want the story of the campaign broken up like that.

And this is the problem with using Death as the "losing-state" of D&D, and why focusing on the "game" of D&D rather than the "story" is never as satisfying. The players can lose in the "story" so many more and disparate ways than they ever can in the "game". So spend more time focused on ways to ruin their lives in the campaign and less time trying to just "kill" them. Because a PC whose personal or professional life is in shambles is much more of a losing state for the player than just having their character killed off.

You want the players to occasionally "lose"? Keep their characters alive but narratively in shambles with almost no way to climb out of it.

 

[Don Durito]

A quick note for the people who discuss removing head and dragging off/eating bodies of fallen comrades: reincarnation works in such cases as long as you have any part of the body: blood on the ground, a bit of flesh, even a fingernail clipping.

Sure, new race, but everything else is the same... so that pretty well solves that problem at higher levels anyway.



This is a nice idea, too! That way the character will require a long rest to be back to full strength. Would you incorporate this with death saves or just have damage taken while at 0 HP continue to reduce the HP maximum?

Personally, I'd keep the death saves.

I just want it to feel like getting reduced to 0 means something.

 

[DND_Reborn]

There are so many different ways to make the game "deadlier" if you really want to. In addition to all the variant stuff in the DMG, you can even do stuff like just remove healing and resurrection spells from the game. Take out Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Revivify, Raise Dead etc. and all the rest. If the recovery from injury/death via magical means is removed and all recovery is by natural recovery only... then voila, your game will be "deadlier".

Or let's be honest and more to the point... the game will be "slower". Because since nobody wants to have their characters die, they will just run away and go do the non-magical recovery route for however long you've set the rules for. Then and only then will they go out adventuring again. Which is fine if you as the DM are okay with extended breaks between adventures (or even in the middle of adventures), but my guess is most DMs don't want the story of the campaign broken up like that.

And this is the problem with using Death as the "losing-state" of D&D, and why focusing on the "game" of D&D rather than the "story" is never as satisfying. The players can lose in the "story" so many more and disparate ways than they ever can in the "game". So spend more time focused on ways to ruin their lives in the campaign and less time trying to just "kill" them. Because a PC whose personal or professional life is in shambles is much more of a losing state for the player than just having their character killed off.

You want the players to occasionally "lose"? Keep their characters alive but narratively in shambles with almost no way to climb out of it.

This isn't about "losing" or trying to ruin their lives. It is about how 5E has made the game in its designed default state too easy to survive all in all because even death is rarely permanent, and knowing that PCs rarely get that "scared" feeling from an encounter unless you throw really crazy stuff at them.

We tried grittier rest-periods, etc. and as you know that really solves nothing. I don't want to just blanket remove healing or recovering from death as it removes an element from the game. Returning to things such as a Resurrection Survival Check, etc. is fine. We already house-ruled Revivify because, frankly for 3rd level, it is OP.

Let's put it this way. If a character has 5 hp left, and is facing a hill giant who is uninjured, but this character knows the rest of the party is on the way, I don't want him to think: "Well, I can fight on as usual, do some damage, and when I go down, they can kill the giant in 10 rounds and revivify me so I don't need to worry about survival." Now, even when the giant takes that one character out, and the others have arrived to kill him, having him kill the downed character does no good because the PCs will bring him back. The result: players generally don't care if their characters die IME because rarely is it permanent.

 

[Seramus]

Personally, I'd keep the death saves.

I just want it to feel like getting reduced to 0 means something.

Easiest way I found to do this is not have death saves reset until you have a short rest.

 

[Oofta]

This isn't about "losing" or trying to ruin their lives. It is about how 5E has made the game in its designed default state too easy to survive all in all because even death is rarely permanent,

How is that any different from any edition of D&D?

and knowing that PCs rarely get that "scared" feeling from an encounter unless you throw really crazy stuff at them.

You should try telling that to my players.

Let's put it this way. If a character has 5 hp left, and is facing a hill giant who is uninjured, but this character knows the rest of the party is on the way, I don't want him to think: "Well, I can fight on as usual, do some damage, and when I go down, they can kill the giant in 10 rounds and revivify me so I don't need to worry about survival." Now, even when the giant takes that one character out, and the others have arrived to kill him, having him kill the downed character does no good because the PCs will bring him back. The result: players generally don't care if their characters die IME because rarely is it permanent.

So the giant kills the PC and then ...

• Stuffs the body in a sack and walks off.
• Spends a round smashing the corpse into goo so there's no body.
• Plays "she loves me, she loves me not" ripping off limbs and tossing the pieces in random directions (up to 240 ft away, as with rocks).
• Starts eating the corpse.
• Getting your hands on 300 GP worth of diamonds is not a simple task
• Don't like Revivify? Ban it.

None of those solutions are difficult to implement, only banning the spell is a house rule.

 

[Slit518]

I know a lot of players enjoy the appeal of 5E's high survivability rate, and much of it depends greatly on the DM's style, etc. but...

I find that, especially after tier 1, character deaths are few and far between, almost unheard of, and of course when they do occur recovering from them in many 5E games seems pretty simple with spells like Revivify. Even stabilizing is not that hard (the given mechanic is about 60% survival IIRC, even without aid). Exceeding your maximum HP after lower levels seems almost impossible in most situations for the insta-kill mechanic.

I've considered ways to make the game feel more deadly, such as imposing a level of exhaustion when you go to 0 HP, or giving a level for each failed death save (so even if you recover, you will need strong magic or some long rests to remove the penalties).

I was curious if anyone plays in a style of with house-rules that makes 5E more lethal to them?

Combat will near full HP should not be a terrifying experience (for the player anyway), but as HP dwindle and that 0 approaches, the player should understand their character is in danger and consider their options.

I do you can only recover HP at the end of a Long Rest = to half of your HD. So for example if you have 4 HD, you can roll 1 HD at the end of a Long Rest. You recover HD by not using HD the day before.

Also, if a character goes unconscious, they get a permanent failed Death Save until the end of a Long Rest. So you can imagine what happens if they go unconscious 3 times.

 

[DND_Reborn]

How is that any different from any edition of D&D?

Well, experiences differ, but in 1E (which I mostly played) until your own party got a 9th level cleric or were lucky enough to find one whose service they could employ, raising was rare. And, with the Resurrection Survival check, even when you tried it didn't always succeed (and then, short of a Wish, death WAS final.)

You should try telling that to my players.

Easy enough to say, impossible to prove.

So the giant kills the PC and then ...

• Stuffs the body in a sack and walks off.
• Spends a round smashing the corpse into goo so there's no body.
• Plays "she loves me, she loves me not" ripping off limbs and tossing the pieces in random directions (up to 240 ft away, as with rocks).
• Starts eating the corpse.
• Getting your hands on 300 GP worth of diamonds is not a simple task
• Don't like Revivify? Ban it.

None of those solutions are difficult to implement, only banning the spell is a house rule.

• Walks off with the rest of the party there to kill it? It won't get far.
• Goo is still part of the body, so even if Raise dead won't work--Reincarnate will.
• Limbs are no issue with Reincarnate.
• Eating the corpse? A last meal for it then? Again, Reincarnate solves that unless the body is swallowed whole and instantly dissolves.
• By the time you reach 5th level, 300 gp is pretty much pocket change for most tables. So, not an issue unless your characters are paupers.
• Again, the goal is not to just ban stuff. We house-ruled it to make it not automatic, and that will help at middle levels, but solves nothing at higher levels. Sure, argue that "most" tables don't go past level 10 or whatever, but we are (currently 12-13th).

So, none of those are really solutions IMO, but I suppose if they work in your game, cool.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I do you can only recover HP at the end of a Long Rest = to half of your HD. So for example if you have 4 HD, you can roll 1 HD at the end of a Long Rest. You recover HD by not using HD the day before.

Also, if a character goes unconscious, they get a permanent failed Death Save until the end of a Long Rest. So you can imagine what happens if they go unconscious 3 times.

We were keeping death save failures until a long rest, but since we introduced exhaustion that helps. Do you restore just one failed death save per long rest or both if they have two?

 

[Slit518]

We were keeping death save failures until a long rest, but since we introduced exhaustion that helps. Do you restore just one failed death save per long rest or both if they have two?

Both. And, alternatively, if that becomes too hard, you can also restore 1 failed Death Save a Short Rest.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Both. And, alternatively, if that becomes too hard, you can also restore 1 failed Death Save a Short Rest.

Hmm... I am not sure.

I am thinking of removing the death save mechanic entirely. I like the idea of negative hit points, and think using something like negative CON score + proficiency bonus might do.

We once played with a Damage Threshold (similar to the coupe de grace in prior games), where if you were unconscious or helpless and failed this check, you died.

Of course, I like many of the suggestions posted here as well, like delaying death saves until someone checks on the body and reducing maximum HP for the overflow when you go to 0 hp.

I think another thing is to run the campaign more low-fantasy and make it more resource dependent in terms of gold, etc.