Certainly IMCs you need the head. For Raise Dead you need an intact, non-dismembered corpse. For Resurrection you need the major bones. For True Resurrection just some kind of memento of the character to create a link.
D&D 5E Super Deadly 5E?
- Thread starter DND_Reborn
- Start date
Certainly IMCs you need the head. For Raise Dead you need an intact, non-dismembered corpse. For Resurrection you need the major bones. For True Resurrection just some kind of memento of the character to create a link.
Todd Roybark
Hero
Ahh, Tetra....in 5e terms, a Coup de Grace against fallen opponents is not a
-move.(not as much of one, anyway
)That is an antiquated D&D modality....true in 1e & 2e when -10HP was as low as one could limbo, and healing spells were touch based, often healed paltry amounts due to bad dice rolls; thusly frequently requiring multiple spell applications to get someone back to positive HPs.
Of course in 1 & 2e, spells could be disrupted, and the First Aid skill was useful, but not a 5e Healer’s Kit. So a character at -8 HP, didn’t need so much help to die.
For me, 3e with the Massive Damage and Coup de Grace rules, pretty much put out a sign saying that downed characters were fair game, from a system perspective.
When a player can go down to -23 HP, and then up to 9HP from a single Healing Word spell, as happens in 5e, then it behooves the DM to try to encourage the players to get their fallen up as quickly as possible, without resorting to doing the Death Save Timer dance.
(Earlier editions had the same dance BTW, many groups did not drop all other actions and just concentrate on healing a downed comrade, when the downed player was just at -2 HPs for example).
Wizards are fairly adept at dispatching the fallen- Magic Missile will kill someone outright.
If you are fighting something able to cast MM, your group better get the fallen player back into positive HP territory before the Magic Missile opponent’s turn!
Owl familiars, likewise are highly effective at delivering a Touch Spell Coup de Grace.
Drone strike D&D 5e style.
Quasits and Imps are even worse news.
Incorporeal Undead are also very good at this. Shadows are low CR, and a Wraith, even in it’s 5e form, will scare the
out of downed player when, in additional to having 2 failed Death Saves from the Critical Hit Life Drain attack on the unconscious player, their maximum HP total is also reduced. Which of course could lead to a massive damage death, from this alone.Legendary Actions can also excel at putting the Death Save pressure on, especially if the downed character failed their Death Save on their turn, and then the DM uses a Legendary Action to whack the downed player.
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dave2008
Legend
So what do you do in your game?
In most of my settings there aren't NPC casters with Resurrection available, and even that won't work when the dragon eats the bodies, as happened to a couple PCs in my Red Hand of Doom campaign (highest NPC Cleric level: 8). Only my highest magic setting (Golarion) features high level PCs & NPCs who can cast Resurrection. That campaign (Runelords of the Shattered Star) is the only one from half a dozen or so with routine bringing back of dead PCs, and they still feel challenged since they face super-powerful foes. My Primeval Thule campaign has no Raise Dead, but a very low PC mortality rate since they play smart, the only deaths have been with first-session & drop-in players (drained by Shadows, carried off by a Nightgaunt). My Stonehell campaign saw a fair number of perma-deaths among careless PCs (eg drained by a Wraith, overwhelmed by zombies or orcs) - usually when the rest of the party fled.
We tried this and didn't like it.
It resulted in that some characters had 2 or 3 levels of exhaustion almost all the time - not fun.
For us the problem was that characters at zero hp, and thus dying, could jump up and fight again as soon they got 1 hp back.
Our solution: if you are at zero hp and get at least 1 hp back you gain consciousness, but are incapacitated.
By the end of each of your turns you roll a DC10 save without ability modifier (same as death save) to get rid of the incapacitated condition.
Some people think that it's ridiculus that you're incapcitated after magical healing - magic should cure such things. If so, then explain why a person raised from the dead has -4 on all attack rolls, saves, and ability checks for a whole day.
This is similar: isn't it natural that you gasping for breath an round or two if you wake up from dying?
Others think that the incapacitation save should be a CON save, but I think it still has with death to do and thus is beyond the characters abilities.
Otherwise I think the biggest problem is the death threshold.
In ODD74 and BDnD you died at 0 hp.
In ADnD you died at 0 hp, with an optional rule of dying at -3.
In ADnD2E you died at 0 hp, with an optional rule of dying at -10.
In DnD3E you died at -10.
In DnD4 and 5 you die at minus your maximum hp.
Simply change the rule: you die if the remaining hp is max hp at level 1 + level.
Example: a level 1 fighter with CON 14 dies at HD + CON + level = 10 + 2 + 1 = 13 hp, and when he gain a level it's 14 hp, etc.
In 4e you die at minus half maximum - negative bloodied - and damage accumulates below 0. Worked well I thought.
Don Durito
Hero
An alternative to Exhaustion levels might be that PCs who fail death saves start losing hit dice first. If they run out of Hit Dice then they start taking Exhaustion levels.
Another thing that would really hurt would be to say that if you go below zero any extra damage is taken off your max hit point until your next long rest.
So if you have 10hps remaining and you take 50 dmg, you are reduced to 0 and you take 40hps off your maximum.
Another thing that would really hurt would be to say that if you go below zero any extra damage is taken off your max hit point until your next long rest.
So if you have 10hps remaining and you take 50 dmg, you are reduced to 0 and you take 40hps off your maximum.
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I actually kill characters, IF it makes sense for the monster. Animals drag away the fallen. Intelligent enemies go for the kill if healers are actively bringing them back. Mindless enemies tend to leave you on the ground. Certain creatures like ghouls and gnolls eat you right there.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
A quick note for the people who discuss removing head and dragging off/eating bodies of fallen comrades: reincarnation works in such cases as long as you have any part of the body: blood on the ground, a bit of flesh, even a fingernail clipping.
Sure, new race, but everything else is the same... so that pretty well solves that problem at higher levels anyway.
This is a nice idea, too! That way the character will require a long rest to be back to full strength. Would you incorporate this with death saves or just have damage taken while at 0 HP continue to reduce the HP maximum?
Sure, new race, but everything else is the same... so that pretty well solves that problem at higher levels anyway.
This is a nice idea, too! That way the character will require a long rest to be back to full strength. Would you incorporate this with death saves or just have damage taken while at 0 HP continue to reduce the HP maximum?
