Super Simple Armor

[jaelis]

Here's a question:
Say you used the simple armor rules, but then your table wanted to add back in some complexity with distinct armor types. What might be a good optional "module" giving different properties to armors within a class?

For example, you could use DR and vulnerability. (DR = reduce damage by stated amount, vuln = increase damage by stated amount):

Light armors:
Padded: DR 2 vs bludgeoning, vulnerability 1 vs slashing and piercing
Leather: no changes
Studded leather: DR 1 vs slashing and piercing, vuln 2 vs bludgeoning

Medium armors:
Hide: DR 2 vs bludgeoning, vulny 2 vs piercing
Chain shirt: DR 1 vs slashing, vuln 1 vs bludgeoning
Scale: no changes
Breastplate: DR 1 vs piercing, vuln 1 vs slashing
Halfplate: DR 2 vs slashing, vuln 1 vs piercing and bludgeoning

Heavy armors
Ring: DR 1 vs slashing and bludgeoning, vuln 2 vs piercing
Chain: no change
Splint: DR 1 vs piercing, vuln 1 vs bludgeoning
Plate: DR 1 vs piercing and slashing, vuln 2 vs bludgeoning

Would that be an interesting thing to think about?

 

[mrpopstar]

I'm tempted to lower the STR requirement to 11 because I think that 13 is too penalizing and most medium armor in real life isn't that heavy. I've worn modern body armor that's about as heavy as medium armor and it's not really restricting.

The more I've thought about it, the more it seems like the Dex max 2 is enough of a control factor in terms of who would elect to don medium armor. Coupled with Str 11, it would still succeed at the same outcome. (Definitely thinking about it.)

I'm sorry to hear that. The 5E rules are really working against you there. Do you have some sort of house rules, to combat the fact that it's impossible for anyone to survive losing more blood in a fight than they are capable of regenerating overnight?

Personally, I prefer players to really feel it when they get hurt. When your fighter gets stabbed, you should know that something terrible has happened, and the player should start panicking. That generally means that the PCs shouldn't be getting hit in every combat, but that hits which do land should deal at least a third of their total HP, which will not recover overnight. (Again, though, the 5E rules are really working against me on that one. The default rules really favor using lots of minions to bloodlessly pummel the PCs into exhaustion over the course of a long day.)

I like the rate of traded blows in 5th Edition, and I don't want to shut down talks, but healing and HP are an aside to the focus of this thread.

While players choose what they want their armor style and materials to look like, the following rule of thumb seems to be in play.

LIGHT ARMOR
• full fabric armor
(arms and legs too: boiled leather, padding, layers, fur)
• light helmet
(face uncovered)

MEDIUM ARMOR
• metal armor
(torso only: chain, lamellar scales, laminar bands, plate)
• medium helmet
(nose guard)
• shield
(!) (shield is medium armor and incurs max Dex 2)

HEAVY ARMOR
• full metal armor
(for arms and legs: chain, long thin splints, plate, shield can count for arms)
• heavy helmet
(face covered: eye slits, spectacle guard, cheek guards)

I think there's a general consensus as to what constitutes being lightly, moderately, or heavily armored. Protection trends from soft and pliable to hard and articulated. Materials reflect culture, geography, and economics.

Thoughts.
• Light armor definitely deserves a max Dex. The max Dex 4 is a good idea.
• Light armor and heavy armor are both more likely to see two-handed weapons.
• Medium armor is more likely to be sword-and-board.
• Dragon hide can substitute metal for medium and heavy.
• Average humans have Dex 2 or less, thus benefit from medium armor, and should wear it if affordable.
• Wealthy Greek hoplites seem to enjoy ‘heavy armor’, with bronze plate cuirass for torso, bronze shin-guard greaves, and the shield seems to count as metal arm protection. This large shield partly hung on the shoulder, and well secured to arm and hand, to make carrying it easier, and it seems to serve as coverage for shoulders, hip, and groin area.
• A Roman laminar banded armor for one arm only, counts as a shield, as part of medium armor.
• A low-level rogue with Dex 3 still benefits slightly from a shield, but at upper levels with Dex 5, the shield just gets in the way.

A Dex max is an interesting consideration for the shield. My only hesitation is the Dex modifier toggling that takes place as you doff and don the shield in the midst of combat. Is it fiddly?

Here's a question:
Say you used the simple armor rules, but then your table wanted to add back in some complexity with distinct armor types. What might be a good optional "module" giving different properties to armors within a class?

For example, you could use DR and vulnerability. (DR = reduce damage by stated amount, vuln = increase damage by stated amount):

Light armors:
Padded: DR 2 vs bludgeoning, vulnerability 1 vs slashing and piercing
Leather: no changes
Studded leather: DR 1 vs slashing and piercing, vuln 2 vs bludgeoning

Medium armors:
Hide: DR 2 vs bludgeoning, vulny 2 vs piercing
Chain shirt: DR 1 vs slashing, vuln 1 vs bludgeoning
Scale: no changes
Breastplate: DR 1 vs piercing, vuln 1 vs slashing
Halfplate: DR 2 vs slashing, vuln 1 vs piercing and bludgeoning

Heavy armors
Ring: DR 1 vs slashing and bludgeoning, vuln 2 vs piercing
Chain: no change
Splint: DR 1 vs piercing, vuln 1 vs bludgeoning
Plate: DR 1 vs piercing and slashing, vuln 2 vs bludgeoning

Would that be an interesting thing to think about?

Definitely an interesting thing to think about.

Really, what I wanted to do was boil armor down to its purest base and see what we were left with.

 

[jaelis]

Really, what I wanted to do was boil armor down to its purest base and see what we were left with.

Yep and I think you've been reasonably successful with this. But I do like the idea in general of a simple base that groups can then build up with complexity where and how they like it.

 

[Ganymede81]

What I like is the opportunity to describe mooks as being lightly, moderately, or heavily armored in filthy beast hides without having to fuss with more granularity than is needed.

That gave me another thought.

If the whole point here is ease of use to allow for narrative freedom (alongside a meaningful choice between the tiers of armor), why are we sticking to tiered proficiency based on the heaviness of armor? If light, medium, and heavy armor are to ostensibly be a balanced choice, it makes as much sense to gate away heavier armors from some classes as it does to gate away certain fighting styles for the ranger and paladin.

Why not have a Martial/simple/none proficiency paradigm for armor instead, like we do for weapons?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I like the rate of traded blows in 5th Edition, and I don't want to shut down talks, but healing and HP are an aside to the focus of this thread.

I'm just saying, the topic of this thread can be impacted heavily by which other house rules you have in effect. If I actually put my preferred healing rules into effect, for example, it would be alongside armor rules that increased AC for PCs by ~4 across the board.

If you're just using the default healing rules, though, then it make sense to compare your alternate armor rules directly against the rules in the book

 

[mrpopstar]

Yep and I think you've been reasonably successful with this. But I do like the idea in general of a simple base that groups can then build up with complexity where and how they like it.

I really like the concept of damage reduction with regard to armor. I enjoy complexity when it's leveraged for its strengths.



Now, how can I improve upon "reasonably"?

That gave me another thought.

If the whole point here is ease of use to allow for narrative freedom (alongside a meaningful choice between the tiers of armor), why are we sticking to tiered proficiency based on the heaviness of armor? If light, medium, and heavy armor are to ostensibly be a balanced choice, it makes as much sense to gate away heavier armors from some classes as it does to gate away certain fighting styles for the ranger and paladin.

Why not have a Martial/simple/none proficiency paradigm for armor instead, like we do for weapons?

I LOVE THIS

Although, the paradigm does exist in terms of class proficiencies already (in a way-ish).

EDIT: Does having only two armors differentiate things enough? What would that look like in terms of numbers?

 

[mrpopstar]

I'm just saying, the topic of this thread can be impacted heavily by which other house rules you have in effect. If I actually put my preferred healing rules into effect, for example, it would be alongside armor rules that increased AC for PCs by ~4 across the board.

If you're just using the default healing rules, though, then it make sense to compare your alternate armor rules directly against the rules in the book

Ah! I just want to collapse the Armor table to include 4 reference points: light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, shield. Compare to rules as written.

 

[Dausuul]

Seems fine to me. It would certainly achieve all three of your goals and should not break anything.

What sort of price tags would you put on the heavier armors? Right now, the best heavy and medium armors are expensive enough that low-level PCs have to work to afford them - it takes a few levels. If you put a low price tag on those armors, low-level PCs will have drastically better AC; if you put a high price tag on them, low-level PCs won't be able to afford any useful armor at all. I'd probably go with door #1, but it's worth considering.

 

[jaelis]

Now, how can I improve upon "reasonably"?

Well for me I'd like a rogue benefit to restore the loss of AC, easy enough.

Otherwise, I'd prefer more evocative names. Just like I don't really want to attack with my "weapon," I wouldn't be excited to wear "medium armor." Obviously you can just list a bunch of specific armore types for each category, but I'm also not a fan of multiple names for the exact same mechanic (cf longsword and battleaxe).

What if you called the categories "leather," "mail" and "plate" armors? Leaves room for different kinds of leather, mail, and plate if you want them, but still gives you a more concrete notion of what they are.

 

[mrpopstar]

Food for thought...

Armor	Armor Class (AC)	Strength	Stealth
Light Armor	11 + Dex modifier	--	--
Medium Armor	15 + Dex modifier (max 2)	--	--
Heavy Armor	18	Str 15	Disadvantage
Shield	+2	--	--

​

The more I thought about it, the more I could see that class proficiency and the role of Dexterity in your base armor class contributed to medium armor already favoring the strong over the dextrous. There wasn't a need to cap light and force Str onto medium.

Boiled straight down, it's pretty damn simple.

(I think I may have been won by the idea of Str 11 for medium. It makes sense.)