Superfluous Skill Checks

[Insight]

I posted this on another thread and realized it would probably get buried there, and I believe this topic may be interesting to a wider audience than might be attracted to that thread:

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I'd like to start a petition for the reduction of Listen and Spot checks in games. It seems that every time there is ANYTHING to be seen or heard, the DM calls for a Listen/Spot check (sometimes both). Why? If it's there to be seen/heard, tell the players. Also, if it's critical to the plot that something be seen or heard, JUST TELL THE PLAYERS ABOUT IT. Don't have the Players rolls dice just for the sake of rolling dice! You know you're just going to tell the Players about it anyway - cut to the chase already!

I have been in situations where the DM called for Listen and Spot checks, we all rolled in the 10s and 15 at the most, and he gives us all the information anyway. If it's something anyone would see or hear in that situation, just tell us. It's a waste of time to go through all that die rolling and results announcements.

Here's a simple litmus test when thinking about calling for die rolls:

Is the result of the die roll(s) going to change something in the game?

If the answer is no, then don't call for a roll. Just tell what happens and move the game along. You don't need to roll Listen checks for every songbird that happens to chirp when the PCs walk by, you don't need Appraise checks to determine the market value of a simple dagger, and you don't need a Spot check to see whether a door is open or not.

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I'd be interested in your opions of/experiences with the above issue.

 

[Crothian]

THe solution is simple, when you DM don't do this and when you PC ask your DM to not do this.

I don't ask for a lot of listen and spot rolls, usually only when the player choose to use the skills. I like to keep things flowing, though there are times when asking for a listen and spot check really helps to set a mood.

 

[Oryan77]

Don't ask the players to roll those checks...roll them yourself secretely.

If you ask them to roll, they know something is up and will be on their toes. If you just roll secretely then they'll have no idea anything is around. This also allows you to just BS and tell a random player they heard something. They'll think they made their listen check when really, you didn't even figure it up.

I'm constantly rolling my dice behind my screen so the players never know if I'm rolling for something serious, rolling just to fool them into thinking I'm rolling for something serious, or I'm fidgeting

This won't work if you roll in the open every time, but then I don't do that and this is one reason why I don't.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Sometimes I call for a roll which determines who in the group get to hear the information firsthand. They then have to relay the information to the others in the party. Some of my players do a great job of "coloring" their perception when relaying it. It is a lot more interesting than me just telling them all.

Heck, one time, the only person who saw something didn't think anything of it and didn't bother to tell the rest of the party. It was only after a couple of hours of the party beating their heads against the wall trying to understand what the heck was happening that the character mentioned what he had seen. The rest of the party wanted to kill him at about that time. It was a lot of fun to watch.

 

[hexgrid]

I am occasionally guilty of calling for superfluous skill checks, mainly of the "well, you all rolled low, but I'm going to tell you about it anyway" variety.

It's a reflex I'm trying to unlearn.

 

[Stalker0]

Keep in mind, that if the check is just to detect something that's not actually trying to be hidden...the dc is normally REALLY low.

The spot check to see a small object 10 feet away is only a 5.

 

[lukelightning]

For cases of wandering though an environment and noticing or hearing something, I just assume the characters are taking 10. I normally only make them roll for spot or listen in ambush situations.

 

[maggot]

I like to call for listen/spot checks when there is nothing around to confuse the players. Once the players were convinced there was an invisible opponent in the area because of I called for a couple of spot checks during combat.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Sometimes I call for a roll which determines who in the group get to hear the information firsthand.

I do that fairly often. Even with DCs as low as 10, if I want a distinction as to which PC notices something, then I'll call for a check. Last session I called for a Spot check DC 10 to notice bruises on a boy, and the one who noticed it first (highest Spot) was the one who was allowed to act on it first, whose character acted completely different than the others. One poor guy failed the check and didn't know what was going on. I know someone will make the check, but knowing who can enhance the experience.

 

[Percivellian]

If someone in my group is going for one of those 'keen senses' type characters (spot/listen maxed/enhanced as much as possible), I'll usually do what Third Wizard just described, and then throw in a lot of flavour details into the description of what they (the keen senses char.) pick up, even if everyone makes the DC to notice the 'important' detail. I find it generally makes them feel those skill points are well spent.