Superheroes

Kzach

Banned
Banned
I just saw a HBO documentary called "Superheroes". It's about real-life superheroes. That's right, people who dress up in costume and go out to fight crime and help people.

Every day I experience something about the human race that makes me want to push a button and destroy us all. Yet every so often, a rare and magical event takes place that inspires me and gives me a glimmer of hope that we aren't all... hmm... better not.

Anyway, point is, this documentary really touched me. You may think these people are a bit crazy, but they're my kind of crazy. If you get a chance to see this, make sure you do.
 

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Cops, soldiers, detectives, undercover agents, fire-fighters, rescue workers, first-responders, volunteers, etc do this kind of thing all the time. They do it without costumes, then again costumes don’t make you heroic.

Of course cops and so forth are paid to do this, but the pay is usually meager to say the least (and certainly does not compensate for the level of danger and risk involved, and often doesn't even pay for decent equipment/gear), if you're in the field anyways.


Here is my opinion on these matters, based on my own experience. Take it for what it is worth.


I understand the allure of the Lone Wolf Vigilante. (I use vigilante here in a limited sense, as in what was once called a Regulator or Militiaman, not someone out to “take revenge or the law into his own hands, and do whatever he wishes to keep the peace.”)

And personally I’m not against it, I’m all for individual citizens being/becoming Vigilantes. (As the Roams would have thought of it, and as the Frontiersmen of America would have thought of it – the Romans would have traveled in teams as Vigilantes, the Americans in small groups or as individuals).

The Vigilante has the advantage of being able to be where the police cannot be (the opposite is also true), due to the fact that there simply are not enough police. (I’ve done this kind of work myself as both an undercover operative on assignment, and as private citizen on patrol on my own initiative – and I still do on occasion). Also you can work on your own projects, like crime anticipation and suppression (rather than just incident response), community security, criminology projects, non-lethal weapons development, and so forth. You don’t have to worry about being approved for clearance by your office or agency, or funding requests, because it’s self-funding (though there’s your real problem right there, isn’t it).

The disadvantages to the modern Vigilante (assuming he operates lawfully and not to do whatever he wishes) are these: it is an expensive and self-funded operation, except in certain limited circumstances he has no power of arrest (but he can interfere to prevent harm and crime) merely observation and tracking and reporting ability, it can be dangerous (especially if done stupidly) and you have no support or backup. These are very real disadvantages that the Vigilante must compensate for, through various means.

This does not mean the Vigilante does not have his place and is not potentially a valuable asset for peacekeeping, crime prevention, rescue work, even emergency medical aid, and so forth, but the idea is more romantic than realistic (as far as most others are concerned), he has his limitations. Real ones. But that doesn’t mean that, properly operating, a vigilante, or a group of them, cannot be helpful to local law-enforcement, to other agencies, and to individual citizens.

Personally though I’m against the “I’ll put on a crazy looking costume and go out and patrol the streets” (or whatever it is you take up as your function). Because crazy looking costumes are usually more dangerous than beneficial, and one should never mistake will and desire and comic-book inspired heroism for actual field experience, training, and long hard hours of real preparation and study. There is nothing wrong at all with will and desire, they are fundamental to achievement, but they should in my opinion always be tempered with study, training, patience, experience, and real work.

That being said I’m not against suits. (I have several, and they are very useful, but there is a reason the operational suit of a SWAT member or soldier or, in some cases the suit of an agent, is designed as it is, because long experience has demonstrated how it is actually useful. This doesn’t mean suit design can’t be improved, it merely means suits are far better than mere costumes.) So a vigilante’s suit can be helpful (whereas a costume will likely not be), but to be honest, both suits and costumes arouse far too much suspicion if you’re actually spotted in one. By far the best way to operate, day or night, is in simple street clothes, or disguise clothes appropriate to the environment you are operating in, with a simple backpack or carry bag containing the actual equipment you might really need.

As I said I’m not against the Lone Vigilante at all. But I strongly suggest he/she get trained in a wide variety of useful skills (rather than stupidly learn by trial and error and by exposing himself and others to unnecessary and reckless danger) - and there are a number of governmental, public, and private organizations that will give you such training, at least on the basic level, that he study, start very small, get plenty of actual experience, and go about the effort as if he were a professional (even though the effort will be amateur and probably unpaid) rather than a game or a hobby. Because he protects himself that way and helps others that way, learn as you go about and in dangerous situations is a fools errand.

Also if he joins some good organizations to receive the proper training then in case of real emergency, like terrorist attack or fire or natural disaster or plane crash he will get called out on a volunteer basis with other trained volunteers and with paid professionals to assist in an organized and methodical way, rather than operating without any real idea of what the real situation is.

In normal circumstances, and in everyday situations he can pursue his own Vigilante activities, within the law, as a lone or singular operative. But in a real crisis he will far more likely than not serve better as a team member at a group effort.

Also I should say a few other things based upon my own experience of nearly 35 years of doing this kind of thing: Have a plan, a real one. Know exactly what you are trying to achieve, like a 50% reduction in violent crime in a particular area, or suppression of math labs on a particular patrol beat, the tracking of gang activity, a reduction of drug smuggling operations through your county, or helping to solve cold cases, etc.

Going out on patrol, just to see what happens, is interesting, and sometimes outright exhilarating. But your odds of being truly useful in this way are slim. (Though on unorganized patrol I have helped put out fires, rescued a kid from a car wreck one time, discovered gang nests, found a chop shop by accident, uncovered a multi-state drug smuggling operation, and have recovered lost or runaway kids. That may seem impressive, on the surface, but that’s over years and years. It isn’t cost effective or useful on an on-going basis. Planned patrols and organized anti-criminal or rescue activities are far more fruitful.)

Instead have a plan, know how you can actually be useful, set out with a goal, establish good relations with the local cops (maybe as an informant, known or covert), study, train as much as possible, and be creative and experimental.

Going out on patrol is fine and all, and sometimes can be useful (if you carry a multi-band radio and have good beat maps) but in all honesty, it is usually wasted time and effort. (Though I do know people that this is all they wanna do, then again they usually waste their time and haven’t prepared for much.) I only go out on unorganized patrol once or twice a month, and it isn’t really unorganized, I know exactly where I want to patrol and why.

But if you have plans and goals and objectives you can be useful, and you will mitigate the risks to yourself, and greatly increase the odds that your own training and experience and study will actually be helpful to others in a practical and beneficial way.

And here is my list of what a good Vigilante should study and learn about and train for, though this list is neither exhaustive, nor does it exclude anyone, it’s just my opinion: CPR, emergency medical aid, tracking, basic detective skills, equipment and tool use, emergency/disaster response, basic police procedures, communications, basic criminology and criminalistics, survival skills, surveillance, escape and evasion, and defensive and evasive driving. Knowing the secondary languages common to your area are a good bet nowadays too.

Anything above and beyond that is very good and helpful. I’d also suggest having good, reliable equipment, whatever you can afford, get the best training possible, study on your own often, and undertake the effort professionally rather than haphazardly.

I actually encourage citizens to become Vigilantes (in the sense I described above, with the caveats above), but it never works like it does in the comic books. Nor should it work like it does in the comic books. Comic books are comic books, real life is very, very different. And far more dangerous, and in my opinion far more important than any fiction. So Vigilante activities should be undertaken as if they are important activities that you train and plan for, not spur of the moment, “boy that looks cool” adventures.

(I’m not saying that anyone here has that motivation, I’m merely saying that’s a very poor and dangerous motivation for such work.)
 
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Cops, soldiers, detectives, undercover agents, fire-fighters, rescue workers, first-responders, volunteers, etc do this kind of thing all the time. They do it without costumes, then again costumes don’t make you heroic.


Actually, they DO wear costumes. Except they call them uniforms...
 

Actually, they DO wear costumes. Except they call them uniforms...

Nope. Unless you want to play semantics. A uniform and a costume are both sets of clothing, but with different purposes.

A uniform identifies the wearer as an official member of a sanctioned organization, such as the police, fire-fighters, paramedics, etc. Ideally, someone who has been trained and certified in certain skills and is (ideally) trustworthy.

A costume (in the context of this thread) is an identifier of someone who's a bit off their rocker. They may be brave, altruistic, and even possibly somewhat effective . . . but they are not completely right in the head. Someone who is playacting at being something that they are not.
 

I think, that in modern times anyways, the suit versus costume debate is an interesting one. I will say this, in a loose, slang sense they can be the same, but I agree with DB's definition of suit for the most part. And think he added a good point by his post. With the following caveats. Modern counter-terrorism warfare often involves Special Forces and others operating "out of uniform" so as to blend into the local population (at least from a distance), and I know for a fact that many Special Forces, and forces prosecuting asymmetrical warfare carry and supplement their equipment, suits, and uniforms in highly individualistic ways.

That's nothing new in history, but it does sometimes practically erase the difference between suit, uniform, and in some senses, the costume. Because an undercover agent or Special Forces, or even a regular soldier may don a local "costume" to either supplement his uniform or to create a unique operating suit or set of clothes and equipment. And that's not even addressing camouflage, terrain or urban, insignia loss or concealment, and other related functions.

So whereas as a explanatory matter I agree with DB's definition, the costume, uniform, and suit debate is open to me as a practical, in-the-field matter.

For my purposes, concerning what I meant above, I'll use the following definitions. You don't have to follow them, and as I said the whole debate is kinda fluid to me, but this is what I had meant in the "superhero" context.

1. Costume - any set of clothes that is worn more for show or for purposes of identification of an idea (such as, "I'm a Superhero") or an individual ("I am Megaman") than for functional purposes. Costumes are often dangerous too, if they include things like easily identifiable symbols (that gang members can track back to an individual) or showy components, like bright colors (meaning you are easily spotted, though that might have certain advantages in certain environments too), or unnecessary components like capes (which easily catch fire, or can catch on debris, or can be used by an opponent in a combat to the wearer's disadvantage). Costumes are, in most environments unnecessary and dangerous and non-functional, though in some circumstances, such as "disguise costumes" they are very useful, and have the opposite effects. But what I was mainly speaking about was the "showy, non-functional, 'look at me' type of costume."

2. Suit - a suit is a special type of uniform or blend of uniform, devices, materials, and equipment, and clothing which is specifically designed to give the wearer certain advantages. A suit can be, in this case, the suit of either an individual, and therefore totally unique in some ways (a Vigilante suit) or the highly modified and individualized uniform of a Special Forces soldier or agent which is both functional, and in some ways a kind of disguise to blend into the background of the area in which he operates. A suit can even be designed to add to or enhance human functions, or even to replace them.

3. Uniform - a set of clothing, equipment, gear, and insignias which identify one as a member of a particular established organization, order, or agency. A uniform has to be recognizable to other members of the organization, and generally, such as a military or police uniform, recognizable to the public at large so that everyone understands what the uniform represents.


Personally I have Vigilante Suits, and I have Uniforms (such as for CAP or law enforcement or SAR work), and I have emergency responder Uniforms and gear, such as for CERT and for responding to disasters, and I also have "Disguise Kits and Costumes" for undercover work. But I have no "hero or superhero costumes" because I consider such things counter-productive and even kinda crazy, especially in dangerous environments and situations. (Though I can imagine a costume which is also really a suit which could be useful.)

That's my take on it, in this context.

Anyway I hope more citizens and individuals will consider thinking about becoming Vigilantes (in the old sense of the term, a Vigilant - as the Romans would say, or a Militiaman - as early and frontiers Americans would say) and be helpful to their own community or surrounding world. But as I said it is something I think should be approached professionally, not sporadically or haphazardly.

I grew up with Vigilantes. My great uncle was a volunteer sheriff's deputy (he did that entirely at his own expense, except that the police issued his firearm and uniform and some of his training), many of my uncles were volunteer firemen and rescue squad workers, etc. My father was draft military, but later in life ran the local volunteer fire department. But all of my vigilante relatives and their friends learned many things from their experiences, such as fire suppression, law enforcement, survival and military skills, disaster response, rescue work, crime suppression, etc. which they all did on their own time and at their own expense.

I am speaking of a slightly different kind of Vigilante though, one who both operates alone, and one who operates under the sanction of a group, like they did. I do both. Occasionally I'll work for law enforcement or the military, or with them. I'll also work on my own Vigilante Projects in my home community. I'll work cold case son my own. I'll patrol as part of a group, and patrol alone. Though I have less time for activities like this now, and there are some things I can no longer do well because of age, and some things my wife and kids don't often allow me to do anymore (they complain of the danger).

But I think anyone who truly wants to do this kind of thing, properly trained and equipped and prepared, can improve their local community and have a great many very satisfying and gratifying real life experiences and adventures on a voluntary basis. And personally I don't think it is nearly as rare as some might think. Or at least it didn't use to be. I grew up surrounded by vigilantes. They are probably why I became one.

So if you wanna be one then get trained, study, practice, get associated with a good organization, learn good techniques, and use your skills and capabilities to help out and do what you can to improve the world. You don't have to be a superhero, you just have to try and make best use of who you are to better what you can. I think it's a good and beneficial and rewarding way for people to spend their time.

I think it's something people should consider and I'm glad Kzach brought the subject up.
 
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If it's the recent HBO one I have.

I've also seen a few others. One I think that was on Discovery, and one on the Documentary Channel, and one maybe on G4. But I don't recall the names, of the shows as it's been awhile.

But most of the people I've seen in such shows strike me far less as Vigilantes than as people who want to be "Vigilantes" (in the sense of thrill seekers and the get into street fights with razor blades).

My feeling is that if someone wants to be a Vigilante to get into fights then he's not a real Vigilante. You don't suppress crime, rescue people, or so forth by getting into fights, especially not on the streets or in public.

And of course I'm not saying all of these folks are examples of that motivation, and I'm of course not saying a real Vigilante should ever have those motives. I'm just saying many of these shows focus on the dress in costume, wear nunchucks and a mask type guy. (I imagine for the same reason that comic books and films detail the exploits of costumed superheroes and not a real Vigilante, because it's showier and more exotic.)

But I don't think those kinds of guys make a real dent in anything over time, nor do I think many of them well trained enough to do so if they were capable. (This does not mean that if they changed their methods of operating they couldn't, at any time, improve their capabilities and effectiveness.)

And of course there is nothing remotely, in my opinion, more heroic about them than local street cops, detectives, first responders, soldiers, or just plain old Citizen volunteers for that matter. Superheroic, I don't see how that idea floats at all, other than just as a sort of symbolic association with costumed comic book heroes.


As for helping out the homeless or the poor or doing charity work - in my opinion anyone can and most everyone should do charity work and engage in philanthropy. I think it's good for a person. But you don't need special gear or masks for that kind of thing. (Though good, solid medical training and proper psychological training would probably help out a lot.)

But again, I'm not against such people per se. And I'm not against Vigilantes. My only point is that in real life there are wrong ways to go about a thing, and far better ways to go about a thing, if you really want to be effective at what you're doing.

Personally I don't think these "superhero show brands" of Vigilante are very useful or very effective. But if they trained properly, had a real operating plan, joined an organization, studied, and got some proper experience, then they could serve two separate but related functions.

As a team volunteer when necessary or needed, and as a well trained and effective individual Vigilante with a plan and a real purpose.

I think the Superhero vigilante ideal is a romantic ideal, but not an effective one. Whereas the volunteer, well trained, Militiaman or Roman Vigilant or Volunteer Firefighter or Deputy Sheriff is an effective way to operate.


I'm gonna state this from my own point of view. Not to be argumentative or even disparaging, but from my own observations. I think many of these "superhero type" Vigilantes are less interested in bettering the world and problem solving than personal excitement. (I've got nothing against excitement and adventure in life, some of the volunteer and Vigilante work I've done ahs been extremely exciting and rewarding, even addictive at times, but to me that shouldn't be a motivation, so much as an after-effect of actually accomplishing a real goal.) Problem solving (of big problems anyway) takes real planning, study, preparation, training, and little desire to dress flashily or call attention to your own self.

Other Vigilantes, the Vigilant kind (retired soldiers, cops, detectives, community volunteers, church workers, volunteer firemen, etc) are usually far more effective, I have seen, because they are more interested in problem solving.

But although such people (real Vigilantes and volunteers) are numerous, and highly effective, since they are mundane and not flashy, and not interested in being flashy, they don't get much attention (then again they don't want much - they'd rather be effective than famous).

If though I met such a "superhero Vigilante" (and I have) and he asked my advice on what he was doing (and he could take it for what it is worth) I'd say, hang up your cape and your crazy outfit son, get properly trained, study, pick a problem or two you'd really like to take a stab at actually solving, exploit your own real skills and élan a few new useful ones, and then go about actually fixing whatever you can fix. And if necessary be on call in case there is a SAR mission, or a natural disaster you need to help out with (and eventually there will be).

Your costume doesn't make you anything more than an easily noticed target. And it and the way you are operating doesn't make you heroic, and certainly not superheroic.

If you want to be a real hero then be disciplined, study, train hard, exploit what you can really do, and serve others first. Then you'll be one your way. Yeah, maybe you won't stand out in a bright yellow costume, but then again you won't need a costume or a secret identify either. You will be yourself, and what's best about yourself, and that's the best identity you can have. Because it's real, and it's useful to yourself, and to others.

 
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Stage Disaster


This is to me a very good example of a real tragedy where a well trained Vigilante (and other trained Volunteers) would have been of enormous benefit (and I'm sure were of enormous benefit, for I expect many crowd responders were trained to some degree) in saving lives and in rescue work, both individually and as a member of an ad hoc team, long before paid professionals could have arrived. Assuming of course one or more were in the audience. And it looks like, from many of the stories I've read on it, that several such people were very helpful in immediate triage and rescue operations.

This isn't the only thing a well trained Vigilante would be good for, but it would be one type of thing that a good Vigilante should definitely be good at. Rescue operations and emergency life-saving.

I think Vigilantes (as I mean the term) should have a wide range of useful skills that they can volunteer to others when needed, and employ individually when they desire to work a particular problem or fix something because they want to improve or protect their community, or whatever else they are interested in protecting or improving.
 

Disclaimer: I have not seen the documentation. Nor have I ever dressed up as a superhero, acted like a superhero, nor have I done any patrols, been an undercover agent or something similar. I didn't even shoot a man in Rhino.

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I wouldn't call these people "superheroes". They don't have special powers or "super"-equipment. They are, in the best of cases, just heroes. In other cases, they might be nutjobs. And sometimes, that might overlap.
I see them critical because if individuals believe they stand above the law and can decide this freely, that's highly problematic and leads to abuse. Of course there are many ways to be a "costumed hero" and avoid all that. For example, stopping a robbery in progress might be risky and dangerous, but you don't need a badge to do it. You can even investigate crimes yourself, as long as you don't interfere with the police, that's not a problem either. Private eyes and journalists do this as well.
You might just need a lot of courage, or be oblivious to the risks.


The talk about costumes makes me think we need a new comic book "superhero" that's actually a group of people that all wear the same costume, but they pretend to be one person only. Occassionally, some of them even get seriously injured or killed. Somethinglike this has been done as "generational" thing (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Dread Pirate Robots, Zorro?), but as a group?
"There is no way any human could have survived that fall! Yet Made Up Man was seen just a few hours later!"
"What he doesn'T know is that no one survived that fall. Our dear friend Jake died, but Bob put on the costume after we recovered the body. A different costume, of course, we didn't try to clean-up the mess."
 

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