Spoilers Superman Spoiler Thread

[Thomas Shey]

Yup, my instinct not to let myself slide into another MoS adjacent discussion was sound.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Snyder is not a shallow thinker. Rather, he tried to ask himself "What would this actually be like today?"

I mean, the big problem is:

A) Everything about all his movies and interviews says "this man is a shallow thinker"/human labrador. I have never seen him come across as "smart" or "thoughtful" in anything but "stoner shower thoughts" kind of way in an interview.

B) The real alternative he's a total fascist lunatic (c.f. 300 above), because he actually made a very extreme comic which the real Spartans would have been like "Nuh-uh" about more extreme, rather than like, making it more real or historical or relevant or w/e.

And you claim he was trying to make Superman more relevant/real - which I think is true, but also he's not a deep thinker (doesn't mean he's not creative or skilled - I've met a number of skilled artists who were absolutely lights on nobody's home when it came to like, conscious ideas.

Everyone picks on the scene where it seems like Jonathan is telling his son to let the kids drown, and forget that by saying "maybe" he's saying "I don't know..." He's allowed to be unsure, and in the face of that uncertainty he prioritizes his son. Which, unfortunately or not, a lot of parents would. Snyder made Jonathan Kent a more real person in this way; worth noting that JK's concerns were right on the money.

This is a great illustration of shallow a thinker he is, actually, because instead of making it be a "maybe" thing that's raised once and then him being really proud when Clark chooses differently, chooses altruistically, Pa Kent continues to be "No just let people die, grrr!" about it to the point where it literally insists Clark let HIM die specifically to make this point and like really engrain it (when the whole situation means Clark probably could have saved him without breaking The Masquerade/causing Paradox, honestly), and we're supposed to this as a glorious and altruistic sacrifice, and I absolutely know that Snyder thinks it is, but in practice, I was in the theatre - I heard the audience gasp and then a lot of "Oh my god really"-type semi-uncomfortable laughs. He doesn't understand how funny this is to most people, how it's an interesting idea but really doesn't work emotionally, even though he honestly did a good job shooting and editing it and so on.

Likewise with the fight being in the city, I don't think it even really occurred to Snyder that this was anything other than "LOOKS KEWL BRO", I don't think he was thinking "Huh Supes would be killing thousands by doing this" but a lot of the audience was like, a bit offput by that - I'm not saying a majority because suspension of disbelief etc. but like, more than a few.

It would be insanely complicated to be the adoptive parents of Kal, and Snyder decided to do a deeper dive into that

No he didn't lol.

He had one (1) idea about this. It was a bad idea, albeit a pretty original one, and he really harped on it, and then hinged emotional scene on the same one profoundly silly idea.

One idea is never a "deep dive" outside of the worst YouTube channels.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Likewise with the fight being in the city, I don't think it even really occurred to Snyder that this was anything other than "LOOKS KEWL BRO", I don't think he was thinking "Huh Supes would be killing thousands by doing this" but a lot of the audience was like, a bit offput by that - I'm not saying a majority because suspension of disbelief etc. but like, more than a few.

My kid was 8 years old when MoS came out. Midway through the Smallville scene, he leaned over to me and asked why Superman was destroying his home town. I have to imagine they heard about this during the test screenings and chose to still plow ahead.

 

[Eric V]

Have you not ever been in a fight? Even someone new to fighting can make a choice of whether to plow into a bunch of people or move to a less terrible position.

Based on what? Certainly not any of his movies.

In other words, they're parents, none of whom are prepared for the job when they get it. If you are a decent person at all -- which is how the Kents have been defined since the beginning -- you work to do so in accordance with your values and instill those values in your kid.

"Don't hurt other people, help them when you can, be grateful for the gifts you've been given and share with those less fortunate than you" are all baseline parenting, none of which the Synderverse Pa Kent managed.

Absolutely untrue. Lots of parents are dealt extremely hard cards to play and, by and large, they do their absolute best to rise to the occasion.

Terrible people would make that choice. Snyder choosing to make Jon Kent a terrible person is precisely what people are objecting to.

1) It doesn't sound like you have ever been in a fight, much less a superhuman one where people are moving faster than the speed of sound.

2) You are totally allowed your (judgmental) opinion.

3) Being kryptoninan makes the bolded part WAY more complicated than you are giving credit for.

4) Please re-read what I wrote; I am talking about the experience necessary to raise a kryptonian on earth. "Absolutely untrue?" Please.

5) He did not make him a terrible person. I don't know what the heck you were watching.

 

[overgeeked]

My kid was 8 years old when MoS came out. Midway through the Smallville scene, he leaned over to me and asked why Superman was destroying his home town. I have to imagine they heard about this during the test screenings and chose to still plow ahead.

The trouble with Snyder’s Superman is it’s Nolan’s Batman in red and blue. It’s the wrong character with the wrong powers doing all the wrong things. Superman doesn’t need to be updated and certainly doesn’t need to be remade as an anti-hero. As seen with the success of Gunn’s Superman. Kindness is the real punk rock.

 

[Eric V]

I mean, the big problem is:

A) Everything about all his movies and interviews says "this man is a shallow thinker"/human labrador. I have never seen him come across as "smart" or "thoughtful" in anything but "stoner shower thoughts" kind of way in an interview.

B) The real alternative he's a total fascist lunatic (c.f. 300 above), because he actually made a very extreme comic which the real Spartans would have been like "Nuh-uh" about more extreme, rather than like, making it more real or historical or relevant or w/e.

And you claim he was trying to make Superman more relevant/real - which I think is true, but also he's not a deep thinker (doesn't mean he's not creative or skilled - I've met a number of skilled artists who were absolutely lights on nobody's home when it came to like, conscious ideas.


This is a great illustration of shallow a thinker he is, actually, because instead of making it be a "maybe" thing that's raised once and then him being really proud when Clark chooses differently, chooses altruistically, Pa Kent continues to be "No just let people die, grrr!" about it to the point where it literally insists Clark let HIM die specifically to make this point and like really engrain it (when the whole situation means Clark probably could have saved him without breaking The Masquerade/causing Paradox, honestly), and we're supposed to this as a glorious and altruistic sacrifice, and I absolutely know that Snyder thinks it is, but in practice, I was in the theatre - I heard the audience gasp and then a lot of "Oh my god really"-type semi-uncomfortable laughs. He doesn't understand how funny this is to most people, how it's an interesting idea but really doesn't work emotionally, even though he honestly did a good job shooting and editing it and so on.

Likewise with the fight being in the city, I don't think it even really occurred to Snyder that this was anything other than "LOOKS KEWL BRO", I don't think he was thinking "Huh Supes would be killing thousands by doing this" but a lot of the audience was like, a bit offput by that - I'm not saying a majority because suspension of disbelief etc. but like, more than a few.


No he didn't lol.

He had one (1) idea about this. It was a bad idea, albeit a pretty original one, and he really harped on it, and then hinged emotional scene on the same one profoundly silly idea.

One idea is never a "deep dive" outside of the worst YouTube channels.

You have an opinion about who Snyder is, without ever having had a conversation with the guy, and it's not going to change, apparently. You are entirely within your rights to do so. I can't imagine ever characterizing someone I have never even spoken with as shallow in their thinking, but...whatever. I found the take on JK more interesting, and more believable in this day and age, then (as someone somewhere else wrote "a one-dimensional morality PEZ dispenser." I found Clark's scene with JK in Superman brief, and unearned. Classic, though, which I understand a lot of people want.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

My kid was 8 years old when MoS came out. Midway through the Smallville scene, he leaned over to me and asked why Superman was destroying his home town. I have to imagine they heard about this during the test screenings and chose to still plow ahead.

Yeah I feel like if they did this now there'd be reshoots and the reshoots would involve adding a scene where Supes is explicitly unable to move the fight and where we see people being evacuated more. But that's in part because this movie got so many people thinking about that.

Kindness is the real punk rock.

SO CHEESY and yet he nailed it and made it work. Damn you Gunn!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

1) It doesn't sound like you have ever been in a fight,

ROFL. Yes, I have, numerous times. My point was not theoretical.

2) You are totally allowed your (judgmental) opinion.

That is what an opinion is.

5) He did not make him a terrible person. I don't know what the heck you were watching.

"Maybe you should let a school bus full of kids die" is a terrible person's opinion. There's no wiggle room on this.

 

[Necropolitan]

Wait, was his name Otis? That's awesome.

Otis Berg to be exact. A pun on the original Otis's dream of Lex Luthor's new beachfront property having an "Otisburgh" in the first Superman movie.

1) It doesn't sound like you have ever been in a fight, much less a superhuman one where people are moving faster than the speed of sound.

I will happily suspend my disbelief if the film lets me do so. I for one loved how this movie's version of Superman saved all the civilians while fighting a kaiju.

 

[Eric V]

ROFL. Yes, I have, numerous times. My point was not theoretical.

Sure. I am sure you dealt with the hypersonic speed punches really well, too. Glad to hear it's not theoretical.

And, again, this is Clark's first fight in his entire life.