Spoilers Superman Spoiler Thread

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah definitely, that's what he got from doing that, it was very effective (if a little too on the nose at the end - but maybe you can never be too on the nose?), I was just like, shocked, because I'd never seen "Jor-El and Lara were kinda Kryptonian supremacist psychos actually" before, and I genuinely thought I knew Superman lore fairly okay (but my knowledge does kind of end in the late '90s and early '00s which is... a lot time ago). And yes it clearly draws a big black between "Sorta like Omni-Man" and "Sorta like Invincible".

Understand where I'm coming from when I say this: I don't think they were psychos. I think they were Kryptionan supremecists as you say, but within that context, their plan was relatively rational. Note they seemed to think they were going to make Earth a paradise by having Kal-El take it over (and didn't seem to have the hidden "let's suck it dry and move on" motivation you find behind the Viltrumites plans). That doesn't make them good people by any stretch, but its the sort of thing that is relatively rational if you come from that position, where its sort of a Hail Mary to save part of your race.

Also thank you for explaining this, I'd been wondering, and my most DC-fan-est friends were also a little taken aback by this.

I'll outright say "Well, damn, this was a dark version of Jor-El and Lara" when it dropped, but like I said, its a not completely out-of-the-blue extension of what has gone on on-and-off about Krypton for a while. One can argue whether Byrne's take there was the best way to go, but he casts a long shadow and that's as it is (the crystal-tech business all modern Superman visual media uses goes right back to him, for example).

 

[Thomas Shey]

I have to say I'll be interested in seeing what sort of back history they have for Kara when the Supergirl movie drops. Since Clark didn't know about his parents actual plans, I'd have to assume Kara didn't either (though I suppose she could have and thought there was no reason to point out exactly how unpleasant Krypton was to him, but if that seemed likely I think the tone of that end scene would have been different than "Your party girl cousin is here to pick up her poorly trained dog.")

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I have to say I'll be interested in seeing what sort of back history they have for Kara when the Supergirl movie drops. Since Clark didn't know about his parents actual plans, I'd have to assume Kara didn't either (though I suppose she could have and thought there was no reason to point out exactly how unpleasant Krypton was to him, but if that seemed likely I think the tone of that end scene would have been different than "Your party girl cousin is here to pick up her poorly trained dog.")

Yeah I'll suspect she'll have an origin that ends up with her being even more clueless re: Krypton than Superman, albeit perhaps for different reasons.

I remain a little concerned re: Milly Alcock casting but Gunn continues to have my faith because every other time I've been like "Er, really?" re: one of his castings it actually turned out good, so I will definitely be open-minded on this.

 

[Morrus]

Supergirl is straight out of Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow. This interpretation of Supergirl isn't a Gunn thing, it's a comic-book thing. A lot of people consider it the definitive version of the character. It's a revenge story, kind of True Grit in space.

And there have been other takes on her too. The 'do-gooder' version is just one take.

Unlike Supes, she saw Krypton destroyed when she was a teenager. She was sent to Earth to protect the baby Kal El, but due to time dilation shenanigans got there 30 years too late and found him all grown up and not needing her. She's damaged and pissed off. Woman of Tomorrow starts with her getting drunk on a planet with a red sun on her 21st birthday, and joins forces with a young girl to hunt down the man who killed her father. With Krypto.

So for me, I'm looking forward to this. I don't need her to be identical to Superman--that's a really bland idea to me. But YYMV.

 

[Epic Meepo]

Also what a way to defeat Luthor - naughty dog behaviour saves the Earth!

This comment reminds me: When Lex Luthor returns in a later movie, I want him to have acquired a super-smart, hairless cat that's trained to counter Krypto's every move. Anything less and I will be disappointed.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't need her to be identical to Superman--that's a really bland idea to me. But YYMV.

I think you may be misunderstanding the issue as one of mere "stodgy old fans" just not wanting change/modernity/coolness (you didn't say those words, to be clear, I just feel like that's the strong implication of "need her to be identical to Superman" - particularly the word "need" instead of "want" or "like").

The issue, I would suggest, isn't that people "need" her to be identical to Superman. It's that they want her to be a "good person" like Superman is (and like many superheroes are not). A lot of women and girls grew up with a version of Supergirl who was good and smart and strong, and in none of those cases, was she a "drunken bad-girl". So we have a situation where people who like "original flavour" Superman absolutely get that (rather than Snyder's "White Monster" - the drink - flavour Superman). But women and girls are generally not well-served by comics or superhero stuff (I would suggest, very strongly, even most female superheroes are aimed at men) and they had a good-girl character they liked, and now she's a drunk and seemingly silly/frivolous (though presumably it will be revealed that she has stuff Going On as per the comic you mentioned).

So maybe that makes a bit more sense to you? The first objection mentioned was from a 19-y/o girl who grew up with the Benoist Supergirl (who is very much a "good" Supergirl), and I don't think "Well this very-written comic had a different take!" really overrides that or even really understands why she might have felt like that. I note this particularly because one of the very few superheros my wife even tolerates is "good" Supergirl (and "good" Superman - and for reasons that are quite complicated, Deadpool, but let's not get into that!).

Like, to me, your argument is actually quite persuasive. That (very recent, 2021-2022) comic and looks and sounds cool as hell, right? But I didn't grow up loving any kind of version of Supergirl. I don't think even saw the the original 1984 Supergirl movie until I was in my 20s. And I'm male. So I get why some people might be like "Nah that sounds like it sucks" without them being stodgy fans who want her to be "identical to Superman"

Sorry if this is annoying, but I just feel like there's a bit more to this particular issue than needing mere "female Superman". Again though I do really want to read the comic series you suggested, because it does sound cool. And I am confident you are correct in your assessment of where Gunn is coming from here. I hope he pulls it off in a way that doesn't like, piss off existing female Supergirl fans the way Snyder Superman pissed off a lot of Superman fans of all stripes (but not all, to be sure - some liked it!).