support for variable magic levels

[Li Shenron]

As usual, there's lots of ways for a setting to be low-magic

Personally I think that when we talk about the power of spells, the frequency of spellcasters or what spells exactly exist, it's quite easy to make house rules like Kaodi says: introduce restrictions on levels of spellcaster classes or ban some group of spells. This you can do also in 3e...

2 problems to watch for are DR (if a monster is untouchable by weapons, and you banned spellcasters, maybe better not to put it into an adventure) and spells DC (if spellcasting levels are restricted, offensive spells may be always too weak to work).

If multi-classing works as well as they have claimed in 4e, I imagine it would be relatively easy to make an effective and fun character that has only half or less of their level in any one spellcasting class. A cleric/warlord, rogue/wizard or even cleric/wizard if you can allow lots of lower powered abilities.

The second option for low-magic is the availability of magic items. It's not easy to house rule this in 3ed, but if it's true that in 4ed equipment increases your options rather than you raw power, and that it is not so necessary in battle to hurt the monsters... then it means 4e will certainly make it easier for this type of low-magic.

Also, generally speaking I think it's best to set the standard magic level fairly high (like in 3e), because IMHO house ruling it down is going to be easier than house ruling it up.

 

[edemaitre]

Variable magic level support in D&D4e

My player group and I have also been concerned about the amount of magic assumed to exist in "Dungeons & Dragons," with the possibility of feats, talent trees, and race/class abilities replacing D&D3.5's reliance on magic items across classes. I myself prefer a slightly lower-powered game, but game balance within each level is more important. Perhaps we'll again find a "sweet spot" where the power levels and number of abilities matches our preferred style, and third-party OGL/D20 publishers will have a niche to support...

 

[gothmaugCC]

The whole idea in 3.5 of stores that sold magic items always hit a wrong chord with me. In Forgottean realms, it felt like hte Red Wizards had "Wal-marts" in all the major cities. It also made my Dm duties of proper and precice treasure placement rather trivial, as the players could easily go buy/sell/trade for anything they desired.

Thats why I began playing Mongoose publishing's CONAN game. It fills my innate needs for a low magic world, and I really enjoyed the rules.

Oh don't get me wrong, I still play plenty of DnD, But I switch to Conan (or the old West End games STARWARS) when i'm in the mood for a change.

I hope 4th edition removes the magic item shopping mall, so magic items once again become rare and special, instead of a commodity.

 

[S'mon]

I think the only way to accomplish the different levels of magic would be to have a totally different set of classes for each of the levels of magic. A wizard in a high magic setting is going to have access to a lot of spells. You put that same wizard in a low magic setting and you either have to take away most of their spells, which nerfs the class in comparison to others, or you have to face the wizards throwing off the whole "low magic" thing.

Couldn't you just restrict spell acquisition, at the same time as you restricted warrior PC access to weapons & armour? As long as they keep their spell slots and some useful spells I'd think they could do without eg fireball.

 

[Li Shenron]

The whole idea in 3.5 of stores that sold magic items always hit a wrong chord with me.

Totally agree. But the game itself actually didn't really say that you're supposed to be able buy/sell anything like you are in 21st century NYC.

It's the gaming community that invented that idea, and then complained about it...

 

[gothmaugCC]

Totally agree. But the game itself actually didn't really say that you're supposed to be able buy/sell anything like you are in 21st century NYC.

It's the gaming community that invented that idea, and then complained about it...

Yeah, your right. We advanced the problem. but the original idea was well supported with all the rules for purchasing/crafting items. It was especially prevalent in Forgotten Realms where WoTC's core book proposed the idea of the Red wizards magic shops. And of course its essentially core mechanics in any of the WoTC RPGA campaigns

 

[Howndawg]

In older editions, where characters generally couldn't buy magic items, they generally tended to sink their hard earned gold into mounts, ships, castles, and bribing their way out of jail. Now it seems everyone just buys the biggest baddest magic items in the shop, and nobody wants to improve their power in the world.

Howndawg

 

[Traycor]

In older editions, where characters generally couldn't buy magic items, they generally tended to sink their hard earned gold into mounts, ships, castles, and bribing their way out of jail. Now it seems everyone just buys the biggest baddest magic items in the shop, and nobody wants to improve their power in the world.

In my games I never allowed the buying/selling of magic items. They were always special and always had story behind them.

Hopefully 4E will do away with the idea of "ye ol' magic shope"

While I strongly believe that players should be able to craft magic items (even non-wizards, such as a dwarf of any class) I don't think that ANY magic item should have a price listing. Selling of magic items need not be supported in the core rules.

 

[delericho]

Desirable? Very much so. Achievable? That's the tricky part.

QFT.

I would add: I would much rather Wizards only provide support for the 'default' magic level, than try to tailor the game for variable magic levels, and do a really bad job of it. So, either do it well, or not at all.

 

[mmadsen]

Totally agree. But the game itself actually didn't really say that you're supposed to be able buy/sell anything like you are in 21st century NYC.

It's the gaming community that invented that idea, and then complained about it...

I think that one portion of the gaming community simply assumed anything with a price could be bought, and another portion didn't give it much thought until they realized much later what the consequences of that would be.

And once you hand out power, it's hard to reel it back in.

The next edition could sidestep some of these issues by giving magic items an approximate value in "power points" or some abstract measure. Then it could list campaign options for buying, selling, and creating magic items. In some campaigns, those power points would inform the DM's decision about how rare the material components would be to create the item; he could replace literal treasure with an equivalent value of the right components to make something. In other campaigns, one power point would simply imply a cost one gold piece at MagicMart.