Surging Flame Feat: Better than I thought

[Nifft]

I just happened to notice that I have been reading the text of this feat incorrectly.

Originally I thought that when I hit the target with a flame power, I got 5 extra damage.

Instead, its any fire power until the end of your next turn...so if a few party members have fire powers they all can benefit.

Learn something new every day

Huh, that is neat.

The first thing I noticed was that it worked fine if you used a Fire + X power against something that only resisted Fire -- so use Admixture to make your power Fire + Thunder, or whatever, and then enjoy extra damage against critters who would suffer full damage anyway.

But I want to add thunder to the the lighting at will. ... for, thematic reasons. Yeah, that's it.

Just take the Thunder at-will and add Lightning to it.

Cheers, -- N

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Cold can... given them vulnerability 5... and... um... get +2 to hit them. No chaining, no maxed crits.

The only build question I have with them... is it better to go Daggermaster (crit on 18-20), or Lyrander Windrider (+1 to hit, +Con mod to damage).... both have tremendous upside.

So, two of a buttload of feats for +2 to hit, +5 damage on a lot of attacks (and, if you cheese it up enough, all of them) is unexciting. But, +1 to hit, +Con mod damage, at the opportunity cost of it being your PP, has "tremendous upsides"?

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

 

[Klaus]

Huh, that is neat.

The first thing I noticed was that it worked fine if you used a Fire + X power against something that only resisted Fire -- so use Admixture to make your power Fire + Thunder, or whatever, and then enjoy extra damage against critters who would suffer full damage anyway.

Just take the Thunder at-will and add Lightning to it.

Cheers, -- N

Indeed, Thunderwave + Energy Admixture (Lightning) + Mark of Storm (adds 1 to your forced movement) = Big Kaboom!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Huh, that is neat.

The first thing I noticed was that it worked fine if you used a Fire + X power against something that only resisted Fire -- so use Admixture to make your power Fire + Thunder, or whatever, and then enjoy extra damage against critters who would suffer full damage anyway.

Just take the Thunder at-will and add Lightning to it.

Cheers, -- N

He doesn't want a blast power.

Spoiler

Does that help saving your face, Kestil?

 

[fuzzlewump]

How many times do you think your DM will throw fire resisting beasts at you under these circumstances?

Ideally, more than without the feats. Certainly not less than if they didn't have the feat.

 

[DracoSuave]

So, two of a buttload of feats for +2 to hit, +5 damage on a lot of attacks (and, if you cheese it up enough, all of them) is unexciting. But, +1 to hit, +Con mod damage, at the opportunity cost of it being your PP, has "tremendous upsides"?

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

Uh. No. I said "I wasn't sure if I would go Lyrander or Daggermaster with this guy." Both have their advantages. Lyrander has more powers that are Thunder, Daggermaster has that critical thing. Either way, getting 19-20 range on crits in epic isn't tough.

But, yes, I claim that -any- PP that says '+1 to hit with all your powers, +Attribute mod to damage with all your powers' has tremendous upside. And the powers it has aren't terrible either. It's a Paragon Path that makes -every single thing your character does better.- That's not a 'waste of a Paragon Path.' That's called a 'perfect fit.' Daggermaster would be a 'waste' as it only has one path feature that fits a couple feats in the build, yet that path feature is so good it's worthy of consideration; the rest of Daggermaster is -subpar- for a storm sorcerer.

Of course, you're comparing the extensive network of feats cold gives you to work with, with a single PP class feature. It's a false comparison, and ignores the rest of the point, which is that thunder/lightning has so much feat support that cold gets left in the dust.

This is the list of bonuses thunder/lightning build gets you:

+Tier damage when bloodied-Heroic tier
+Tier damage after hitting-Heroic tier
+1 to hit after hitting-Heroic tier
Crits do damage to secondary target-Paragon tier
+2 to a defense after attacking-Paragon tier
AoEs are increased in size-Paragon tier
Crits automatically do maximum damage-Epic tier.

-That- is what you should be comparing to '+2 hit +5 damage'. Not to mention many of thunder's attacks actually give you combat advantage inherently, thereby giving you that +2 to hit on top of the rest of its upside. A frost build doesn't really -work- as a damage build until Paragon. A thunder build, on the other hand, starts its magic in heroic... so a third of your frost striker's game is sub par, where as thunder is game through -all- tiers.

Also, what does frost have to compete with 'Automatically maximize all criticals?' Lastly, what does Frost do when it misses? It goes down to subpar for a round until it can get that hit in. Storm does lose a -bit- but it's not as much, and it can still rely on its other advantages.

 

[CovertOps]

<snip> Also, what does frost have to compete with 'Automatically maximize all criticals?' <snip>

Perhaps I am a bit thick here, but don't all criticals do max damage?

 

[DracoSuave]

Perhaps I am a bit thick here, but don't all criticals do max damage?

Sorry, I didn't say that clear enough.

All critical damage is maximized.

That meaning, the extra damage is maximised, not just the normal damage.

Fury of the Storm, Epic level feat, Arcane Power.

Requires sorcerer, and Storm Magic.

When you score a critical hit with a sorcerer attack power, your critical hit extra damage dice automatically deal maximum damage.

 

[Felon]

Funny I n ever thought that.

IME, the only time the martial strikers keep up is when there is only one target to hit. As soon as there are 2-3 monsters on the field, the arcane strikers beat the martial guys hands down.

If you're trying to suggest that arcane strikers have some kind of edge over martial strikers when it comes to multi-target attacks, that is incorrect. Warlocks have only meager capability in this area. OTOH, rangers have superb multi-targeting capability.

Then again, it's not so much "arcane striker" versus "martial striker" so much as it is "fixed-damage implement attacks" versus "exploitable-damage weapon attacks".

 

[Stalker0]

If you're trying to suggest that arcane strikers have some kind of edge over martial strikers when it comes to multi-target attacks, that is incorrect. Warlocks have only meager capability in this area. OTOH, rangers have superb multi-targeting capability.

Hehe, well to me the ranger is the striker of 4e....everyone else is just a "damage dealer with benefits"