Surprised?? You make the call!

[douga]

In my campaign, 4 PCs were entering a room with a hiding opponent. They were alerted to the presence of the opponent by the sorcerer's familiar’s sent ability. They entered the room but missed spot checks to find the opponent. As they walked into the room the opponent sprung out from behind a keg and attacked one of the party members whom I ruled was flat footed. I made this a surprise round where the PCs were flat footed and then rolled init regularly next round.

The players felt this was too harsh since they were aware of the opponent presence but not exact location. Should I have let them have partial actions after the creature attacked the flat footed character, should it have just been straight up init as the creature attacked or did I do the right thing? What do you think?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[Kae'Yoss]

As soon as they enter the room, roll init. If they go first and don't spot the guy, they're flat footed.

They were aware of a presence, so there should be no surprise round, but they didn't spot him, so he's hidden from them.

 

[RigaMortus]

I half-agree with KaeYoss.

They enter the room and everyone rolls init.

Anyone who acts before the hidden enemy is NOT flat-footed.

Anyone who has not acted before the hidden enemy acts IS flat-footed.

If those who go before the hidden enemy can not find him, they are still no longer flat-footed BUT if the hidden enemy attacks them, they will lose their Dex bonus to AC for that attack.

 

[Pielorinho]

Here's how I'd figure it: include a surprise round in which everyone aware of everyone else can act. So the combat might look like this:

Surprise round:
Familiar goes, sniffs around, says, "Hey, everybody, there's someone in here!"
Monster goes, leaps from behind barrels and attacks.

Normal round:
Everyone rolls init and goes.

Of course, if the familiar communicated its warning silently, then the monster might decide not to attack right away. In that case, it would forfeit its action during the surprise round (or might ready an action or even delay), and during the first, normal round, people might make a circle, weapons pointing outward, or something like that.

Daniel

 

[douga]

Pielorinho,

In your case if the players have acted, but still not spotted the enemy, they should still be flat footed when they walk near his square and he jumps out at a PC since the opponent is essentially invislable to them right?

Doug

 

[Pielorinho]

Pielorinho,

In your case if the players have acted, but still not spotted the enemy, they should still be flat footed when they walk near his square and he jumps out at a PC since the opponent is essentially invislable to them right?

Doug

Not flatfooted, technically, but they might lose their dex bonus. It would depend, I think, and I'm not sure how good the rules are that cover this. I'd give him a hide check vs. his victim's spot check (he'd get a hefty bonus if he was well-hidden). If he had to run more than 5' to reach them, he'd get (I think) a -10 on his hide check, per the rules for moving fast while hiding.

If he succeeded, it'd represent his attacking them right when their heads are turned away, and they'd be lose their dex bonus. If he failed, it'd represent their increased wariness, and the fact that his victim saw him before he closed with them, and was therefore not lose their dex bonus.

You may notice that in this case, I'm treating it as an attack from an invisible opponent; as such, I'd also give the hidden attacker a +2 on their attack.

This involves a lot of extrapolation from the rules, however.

Daniel

 

[Saeviomagy]

When they entered the room, they're basically all readying.

The creature is also readying.

At this point, it makes sense for initiative order to stop. Otherwise you end up with a claim that noone is EVER flatfooted. Why? Because everyone KNOWS that there is SOMETHING in the world that is dangerous...

Point this fact out to them. Roll spot checks, and if they fail, they'll be flatfooted for the surprise round and until they actually act.