D&D 5E (2014) Survival and Exhaustion in ToA: need a good house rule.

[pukunui]

I think exhaustion is salvageable though. It's as simple as this: allow a PC to select the penalty for each level of exhaustion he takes from the list of penalties that exhaustion has. Each penalty can be taken only once. If speed is of the essence, characters might take a mix of skill disadvantage, attack and save disadvantage and hit point reduction for their early exhaustion penalties. Or perhaps there are some other resources or trade-offs that can be burnt to maintain speed or class abilities that make up the shortfall, so maybe some party members can take the speed penalty to keep their combat ability and skills up.

I think that makes exhaustion a far more useful resource, and makes survival a more entertaining game.

This is a fantastic idea. I'll think about using it in my game.

 

[CapnZapp]

It is a very well-reasoned post, though in the game's defense I must say that IF exhaustion were this "menu" the existing rule does a pretty good job of providing a "default selection".

I mean, nobody prioritizes their skills over combat. I mean, we're still talking Dungeons & Dragons.

This does not mean I don't see the value of having the choice. Of course I can sacrifice my speed or my sword if you carry me to the King's table so I can keep my negotiation skills.

So as an optional rule, it's interesting. But it's unfair to expect it to be in the base game, especially for a "simplified edition" that 5th is.

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[Inchoroi]

For my games, I changed the Outlander feature to being able to find a safe place to rest, so you don't get random encountered by anything during that rest. The food and such is up to the players characters to locate.

 

[Bolares]

What about using the Optional rules of resting from the DMG? I'm wanting for some time now to run a hexcrawl in 5e, but resting, and the way power are replenished in 5e kind of goes on the oposite direction of that, so I'm thinking of using 8 hours as a short rest and a week as a longe rest, or 8 hours for a short rest and ruling that you can't have a long, replenishing rest, while in the road (or in this case, in the jungle), you would have to find some reasonable resting spot to replenish all of your resources. What's your toughs on that?

 

[Saeviomagy]

It is a very well-reasoned post, though in the game's defense I must say that IF exhaustion were this "menu" the existing rule does a pretty good job of providing a "default selection".

I mean, nobody prioritizes their skills over combat. I mean, we're still talking Dungeons & Dragons.

Skills avoid combats. Not moving at half speed avoids the end of the world happening before you even show up.

If neither of those things happen in your games... then of course you'll be happy losing them before combat ability. However if time is never an issue, then your exhaustion never matters: you can just long rest it away before engaging in combat.

This does not mean I don't see the value of having the choice. Of course I can sacrifice my speed or my sword if you carry me to the King's table so I can keep my negotiation skills.

So as an optional rule, it's interesting. But it's unfair to expect it to be in the base game, especially for a "simplified edition" that 5th is.

That's funny, because the 5e phb doesn't have significantly fewer rules than prior editions. In fact the PHB is tied with 4e for highest page count. I'm not seeing "simpler".

 

[pukunui]

What about using the Optional rules of resting from the DMG? I'm wanting for some time now to run a hexcrawl in 5e, but resting, and the way power are replenished in 5e kind of goes on the oposite direction of that, so I'm thinking of using 8 hours as a short rest and a week as a longe rest, or 8 hours for a short rest and ruling that you can't have a long, replenishing rest, while in the road (or in this case, in the jungle), you would have to find some reasonable resting spot to replenish all of your resources. What's your toughs on that?

I've always been leary of using that optional rule myself, but I think it would certainly be reasonable to argue that you can't get a proper long rest in the jungle.

 

[Guest 6801328]

For my games, I changed the Outlander feature to being able to find a safe place to rest, so you don't get random encountered by anything during that rest. The food and such is up to the players characters to locate.

I like this. One of the flaws (or, I should say, "one of the things I don't like") about CapnZapp's solution is that it completely ignores both Outlander and Ranger special abilities. I know my Ranger Outlander would be disappointed if I ruled, "Yeah, well, we're not really using those rules, so they would find plenty of food and water and wouldn't get lost even if you weren't here."

 

[CapnZapp]

That's funny, because the 5e phb doesn't have significantly fewer rules than prior editions. In fact the PHB is tied with 4e for highest page count. I'm not seeing "simpler".

I'm surprised.

To me 5e is quite obviously much simpler and streamlined than any previous* edition.

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(Page count is a very crude metric; I suggest you actually read them pages, not just count 'em... [emoji6])

*) recent edition I should add before a grognard starts harping about AD&D...
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[CapnZapp]

I like this. One of the flaws (or, I should say, "one of the things I don't like") about CapnZapp's solution is that it completely ignores both Outlander and Ranger special abilities. I know my Ranger Outlander would be disappointed if I ruled, "Yeah, well, we're not really using those rules, so they would find plenty of food and water and wouldn't get lost even if you weren't here."

Worry about that later. First have a general rule, then figure out how to handle the special cases, otherwise your rules design gets you nowhere.

In this case one simple solution is to think ahead. If you already before chargen tell the players they can't choose the Outlander background, since the risk of getting lost is meant to be a major factor in the campaign, you should have no issues.

Other solutions could be asking the player to choose a similar ribbon feature from the exploration pillar; just one that doesn't trivialize a major feature of the campaign.

The only thing that doesn't fly I'd the notion "the rules tell me I can ignore/trivialize your campaign challenges" - then we're right back in the dark old days where DMs were so emasculated by the Cult of RAW their only recourse to having a proper mystery scenario was to give the bad guy a Hat of Mind Shield or whatever.

In that case I've got news for you: 5e has finally done away with Detect Evil as a sure-fire "mystery trivializer".

I heartily recommend you considering "I'm never lost" and "I always find food and water" abilities to belong to the same, easily zapped, category of abilities.

When there's no survival focus they're fine, just like Detect Evil is fine when the enemy is always ugly monsters like Orcs and Beholders.

But as soon as you want to run a different campaign, don't let such features hold you back.

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[Bolares]

I hate this absolute phrases in class, race or BG features. For an exploration/survival/hexcrawl game both the rangers natural explorer and the outlander BG ruin the experience, even more so if they are used in conjunction. The ranger can NEVER get lost in its chosen terrain, the outlander can ALWAYS find food and water... maybe if we just cut the ranger power (as she already gains double proficiency in the terrain) and change the outlander's power to advantage in rolls to forage this can be mitigated.