D&D 5E Survivor Capstones- BARBARIAN WINS!

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Barbarian (Primal Champion) 19
Cleric (Divine Intervention Auto) 21
Druid (Archdruid) 22
Fighter (Third Extra Attack) 19
Monk (Perfect Self) 13
Paladin (Sacred Oath Feature/Varies) 23
Rogue (Stroke of Luck) 21
Sorcerer (Sorcerous Restoration) 16
Warlock (Eldritch Master) 9
Wizard (Signature Spell) 24
 

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Barbarian (Primal Champion) 19
Cleric (Divine Intervention Auto) 21
Druid (Archdruid) 22
Fighter (Third Extra Attack) 19
Monk (Perfect Self) 13
Paladin (Sacred Oath Feature/Varies) 23
Rogue (Stroke of Luck) 21
Sorcerer (Sorcerous Restoration) 16
Warlock (Eldritch Master) 7
Wizard (Signature Spell) 25

This thread is too small for double-double-you.
 

Under my criteria, an ASI improvement and another additional attack are not bad but are not interesting or flexible.

Well, I'll give you "not interesting", and technically I guess you are correct - things that are always on are not 'flexible'. But what flexibility would you want? The option of turning them off? The Barbarian is getting +2 to hit and damage on every attack, +2 to every STR check, and +2 to every CON save (CON checks and STR saves, too, but those are less interesting). The fighter gets a 33% boost to his attack rate all the time.

Contrast those with the rogue being able to turn a failure into a success once per short rest. The real luck would be in having something critical enough come up to make this matter.

Where the Wizards way out shine them is that each player gets to pick their own spells so that Capstone actually has more flexibility for combat, optimization, and story then all of the different paladin capstones together. One could argue that players could select different wizard spells but usually pick the same ones but then you could also say that most people play the same favored paladin sub-classes so you may only see a couple of different capstones not all of them. Due to variation Wizard schools and spell selects per player the spells selected for the Wizard lvl 18 and 20 abilities actually has greater potential for variation of play than the sum of all the paladin capstones its just a matter of the type of players you have that determine if they make use of different paladin domains or select different spells per wizard school/spell selections or if despite the options they always go the same route. The point is the options are there not weather they take them.

Ok, there is a choice to be made, so I guess you can count that as injecting some flavor. But the signature spells have to be chosen from those already in the wizard's spellbook. So they just get to do the same thing they were doing before, but somewhat more often. Basically, they are just getting two restricted 3rd level spell slots that recharge on a short rest. They could cast the spells before and they could recharge spell slots on a short rest before (Arcane Recovery). Now they can do it somewhat more / more often.

In terms of potency, at level 20, a Wizard has 22 spell slots + 2-10 recharged via Arcane Recovery; this is sort of like getting 6 more slots, a 20-25% increase. (If you look at it using spell points, it's 133 + 15-20 via Arcane Recovery; the capstone adding 30 is ~ 20% increase.) But those slots are restricted to those two spells cast at 3rd level, so the actual impact can be, situationally, less, maybe much less. So, not bad, but I wouldn't call it great either.

On a similar note, Cleric's Divine Intervention is the most open ability in the game (well other than WISH), its real flaw is that it is so open that some players will not know what to do with it.

The 7 day cooldown and DM dependence makes it hard to compare with the others. It definitely has the potential to be flavorful and high-impact; no guarantees, though.

Druids, is open to many forms but they typically will pick the same optimal choses like Giant Eagle. But owl is an option... and becoming a rhino might not be optimal but its an interesting way to open a door and when its unlimited... why not? Also... Unlimited elemental forms?

Your point about utility is valid, but for the most part I think this becomes about having potentially infinite HP, which is a pretty good buff. I have a bit of a bias on this one because I am quite displeased with shapechanging having become the defining trait of the Druid class.
 

I mostly agree, however, I would say Wizards is an expansion of their level 18 ability, Clerics of there level 10 (which has a 7 day cool down), Druids of a level 2.... I feel like later they get the ability they improved the more awesome it is and more tempting it is for you to stick to your class instead of cross classing.

Barbarian (More ASI?) / Fighter (More multi attack like many classes at level 5) / Ranger (more damage like hunters mark, hex, backstab?) / Rogue (basically improved luck feat and/or expanding expertise?) for example are expansions of the class from level 1, they are good at making them better at what they are already good at but don't really do anything extraordinary in an interesting way.

Wizards and Paladins bring something new to the class and Clerics/Druids expand really unique class abilities that basically had restrictions your glad to get rid of.

Warlocks/Bard/Sorcerer/Monk recharge unique abilities which means they are not useful unless your spent (while the other 8 are useful all the time) and the recharges are so minimal that they have little to no impact, worse for the warlock because they recharge on a short rest anyway so instead of getting a minor boost to last you when you know you can't sleep 8 hours you get to save 59 minutes.... so its useless if your surprised because you would be out of combat for 10 rounds, useless if you could just take a short rest, and useless if you don't know you have minute but not an hour.

Good points, though I have one little quibble (of course, because me :)). I understand what you mean when you say "the other 8 are useful all the time", but there's still a distinction among those 8 as to how much of the time they are usable:
  • Barbarian and Druid are always on.
  • The Fighter is always on in combat.
  • Ranger is always on in some combats.
  • Paladin, Wizard, and Rogue add features subject to recharge.
  • Cleric enhances a feature subject to recharge.
 

Barbarian (Primal Champion) 21 - Always on power, makes strong and tougher than anyone ever. Now THAT's a capstone!
Cleric (Divine Intervention Auto) 21
Druid (Archdruid) 22
Fighter (Third Extra Attack) 19
Monk (Perfect Self) 13
Paladin (Sacred Oath Feature/Varies) 23
Rogue (Stroke of Luck) 21
Sorcerer (Sorcerous Restoration) 14 - Lame!!!
Warlock (Eldritch Master) 7
Wizard (Signature Spell) 25
 

Good points, though I have one little quibble (of course, because me :)). I understand what you mean when you say "the other 8 are useful all the time", but there's still a distinction among those 8 as to how much of the time they are usable:
  • Barbarian and Druid are always on.
  • The Fighter is always on in combat.
  • Ranger is always on in some combats.
  • Paladin, Wizard, and Rogue add features subject to recharge.
  • Cleric enhances a feature subject to recharge.

Your not wrong but my statement was not worded precise enough for my intent. What I really meant was that you don't have to expend resources for them to be useful. So the 8 are always ready on stand bye until you need them. Where the Warlocks/Bard/Sorcerer/Monk abilities are useless if you fight once in a day and get a long rest between each fight. My GM rarely does more than a fight a day, so these abilities will almost never be useable.

Paladin/Wizard/Rogues/Cleric abilities may not be usable during recharge/cool down but that is because you already USED them. I don't mind that since its just a control for an ability worth using not a restriction the prevents if from being used to begin with. The one use specific ability of the rogue drops it down to ...meh... to me. I would cross class something else for flavor and take the luck feat.

The fighter/Ranger are defiantly less useful than the Barbarian since barbarian's is actually useful out of combat, I just find Barbarians breaking the 20 cap not a very interesting way to expand them. It is very useful to barbarians and I would say it's the 5th best from the optimizer/heroic stand point. I just look at it and think why couldn't a trained fighter be strong and tough too? Doesn't seem very class specific ... so I slide it to the TOP of the ...meh... category.

... and Druids which would be the best capstone but I actually feel it being completely unlimited and used for "potentially infinite HP" diminishes it to 3rd. If they would change it to 6 per short rest instead of unlimited it would still be awesome and I think the best capstone without being just strait broken. (Pick 6 because that allows elemental forms 3 times in one battle which allows players to change out of an elemental form to a different one and back so that they are not afraid to leave an optimal form to change and do something cool, because they can go back to optimal. ANY more than that gets dumb because you want to keep the number of T-rex forms minimum as possible without making the player feel like they are still trapped into a single form, namely elemental since they require 2 uses.)
 

Barbarian (Primal Champion) 22
Cleric (Divine Intervention Auto) 21
Druid (Archdruid) 22
Fighter (Third Extra Attack) 19
Monk (Perfect Self) 13
Paladin (Sacred Oath Feature/Varies) 23
Rogue (Stroke of Luck) 21
Sorcerer (Sorcerous Restoration) 14
Warlock (Eldritch Master) 7
Wizard (Signature Spell) 23
 

Barbarian (Primal Champion) 22-3=19 Corrected mistake made from post #65
Cleric (Divine Intervention Auto) 21
Druid (Archdruid) 22
Fighter (Third Extra Attack) 19
Monk (Perfect Self) 13
Paladin (Sacred Oath Feature/Varies) 23
Rogue (Stroke of Luck) 21
Sorcerer (Sorcerous Restoration) 14
Warlock (Eldritch Master) 7
Wizard (Signature Spell) 23+1=24
 

Barbarian (Primal Champion) 19
Cleric (Divine Intervention Auto) 21
Druid (Archdruid) 22
Fighter (Third Extra Attack) 19
Monk (Perfect Self) 13
Paladin (Sacred Oath Feature/Varies) 23
Rogue (Stroke of Luck) 22
Sorcerer (Sorcerous Restoration) 14
Warlock (Eldritch Master) 7
Wizard (Signature Spell) 22
 

Barbarian (Primal Champion) 19
Cleric (Divine Intervention Auto) 21
Druid (Archdruid) 22
Fighter (Third Extra Attack) 20 -- Because Fighters are the best!
Monk (Perfect Self) 13
Paladin (Sacred Oath Feature/Varies) 23
Rogue (Stroke of Luck) 22
Sorcerer (Sorcerous Restoration) 14
Warlock (Eldritch Master) 5 -- Eldritch Master is basically whining to your Patron about how little spell slots you actually have…
Wizard (Signature Spell) 22
 

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