Swapping skill points for feats

[Laman Stahros]

Help! Is there anyone out there with a house rule for giving up skill points to gain extra feats? My players are asking for such a house rule based on the feat Open Minded from the Expanded Psionics Handbook (gives 5 skill points each time it is taken). I don't see the need but, I thought it couldn't hurt to see if someone else was doing this.

 

[LazerPointer]

I've thought about it in passing, and I think it would have to be different for classes like bards, rogues, and rangers, or else it would get abused.

For classes that earn 2 points +INT modifier/ level, I'd put it at 4 skill points for a feat if I was gonna allow it.

 

[dvvega]

I toyed with something like this, however it could only be taken once at character creation.

It ended up okay, except many classes got prerequisites faster for prestige then expected.

I used 10 skill points = 1 feat. This gels okay with the Psionic Feat since it is harder to get.

By limiting it to once at first level only it stops abuse. Most 1st level fighters could get a bonus feat and have no skills this way.

 

[reanjr]

Help! Is there anyone out there with a house rule for giving up skill points to gain extra feats? My players are asking for such a house rule based on the feat Open Minded from the Expanded Psionics Handbook (gives 5 skill points each time it is taken). I don't see the need but, I thought it couldn't hurt to see if someone else was doing this.

The reason you can do that is because everyone gets the same number of base feats. Bonus feats are almost always limited to a certain list (rogue is the exception here).

On the other hand, every class gets differing skill points. Rogues could just buy them up one after another.

There would be serious issues related to this. Balancing it so that the rogue wouldn't be able to afford 40 feats would make it too high for other classes to do.

If you really want to do something like this, I would remove the rogue's ability to get bonus feats at 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th level (I'm pretty sure that's where they are).

We have as a base (from that feat you mentioned) 5. But going in reverse should be more expensive (things always work like that). Doubling might be a good number, for 10 skill points a feat. This seems like an OK number, except that your average cleric (avg Int) would have to spend 5 levels worth of skill points to get a feat, while a rogue would get a new feat from this method 4 out of every 5 levels (far exceeding the fighter).

You can't base it on class, because with multiclassing, a character could take levels of rogue to get lots of skill points, then take a level of fighter to purchase a feat because it's cheaper there.

You could come up with a number of levels you want it to take (3 is a good baseline, as that's how often the rogue can get one). A character could forgo all skill points for that many levels (including Int bonus) of a SINGLE class to attain a feat. So, a Wizard 2/Rogue 2 who has given up all their skill points thus far could not have one, but giving up an additional wizard or rogue level of skill points would grant them one.

Now, this runs into another problem. Skills are the rogue's lifeblood. Fighters don't care at all about theirs. Giving up 3 levels of rogue skills is a huge hit, while giving up even 12 levels of fighter skills (the same amount of skill points) just isn't that important. So, how do you balance this?

You could give each class a bonus feat list. Rogues, Wizards, and Fighters already have bonus feats, so you could keep their lists intact (the rogues list is all feats) and just make lists for everyone else. Sorcerers could get the same thing as Wizards, while Clerics could get Extra Turning or any feat related to it (all the divine feats). The Paladin could get the same as the Cleric, and also the Save boosting feats (Great Fortitude, etc.). Rangers could get the Fighter list (skills are much more important to Rangers, but fighters already get loads of feat; adding a few isn't gonna be that great a boon; I've seen high level fighters struggling to find something to take), Barbarians could also get the fighter list (for the same reason as Rangers), Monks could get the Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike trees, Druids could get any Wildshape feats, and Bards could conceivably get to choose from the entire list, just as the rogue does.

I maintain that you probably shouldn't do this, but there's my off-the-cuff suggestion on how to go about it if you don't take my advice.

 

[Dog Moon]

In our group, we have the 'Feat Skill' It is basically treated like any other skill in which any character can take and the max number of ranks is level +3. For every five ranks the character puts in, he/she gets a feat. It has worked just fine for our group, although admittedly basically everyone always maxes it out.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

In my homebrew I have a house rule available to my players called Adversity. It allows the players to swap a feat (through level gain or class level) for 4 SPs or do the oppsite. Working out pretty well. No one has abused it yet.

 

[arscott]

Why not have "buy feat" as a skill? you could only have level+3 ranks in it, and it would be cross class for classes that get 6 or more skill points per level. That way, you don't have the problem of rogues spending all their skillpoints on feats, and the cross-class cost will make it cost something to those who have skillpoints to spare.