Swashbuckler and Ship Mage (new archetypes)

Quickleaf

Legend
Indeed! Thank you for your input :)

I've pretty much got it all dialed in now after posting the Ship Mage's various "capstone" abilities: Bowsprit Blessing, Call Maelstrom, Mystic Navigator, and Weather Mastery. So, 99% done! :D

I cleaned up some of the language, particularly on the tricks, and I added a Free Diving trick.

I guess the last thing left to do is figure out the Fighter (Swashbuckler) feature progression and 18th level feature...
 

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Queenie

Queen of Everything
Holy crap you've been busy [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION]!! And [MENTION=6787234]peterka99[/MENTION]. It's a good thing you tagged me this time because I still can't find where you posted my name but I do at least see the post (and read the tag in my email update) lol. I will try to take a look tonight. You are right, I haven't really felt totally comfortable with just the rogue but it was the closest thing that fit... I wouldn't want to lose my cool trinkets though ;) so I will check it out. Jon's busy grading (school just ended and his grades are due by tomorrow night I think) but hopefully I can drag him away for a bit to help me look it over.
 

peterka99

First Post
Almost perfect!

Some comments and new ideas:

-Pirate's curse should be restricted to sea mages

-Splice the Main Brace is dropped ? Extending the 2 existing abilities to a crew size is not a nice trick ?

-Barbarian highest ability, ruthless strike: I still don`t like ruthless... What is the literacy or historic justification ?

- Fearsome Scourge: The trick is too powerful. Maybe this is a correct 18th level ability for the fighter, or 14th for the barb ... just remove the intimidation preq then!

-In comics and novels, Conan as Amra the Lion is able to free slaves when hired as an unwilling passenger
by a press gang and take a ship without problems. Can it be a nice trick , since you have night raid ? Ship uprising ?

-Freestyle should be a battle master ability (or rogue investigator, as a recent thread), not a corsair ability.
A Swashbuckler knows the tricks, then i'll use your term, with different tricks for a musketeer-like archetype.
I think I can work on this tricks list variant later... Then the archetype will apply also to Alexandre Dumas' style campaigns!

ex:

Distracting Yarn as is
Favored city (not port).
Knife in the Sail- applied to curtains = Knife in the curtain
Mariner's Lore- Applied to the court (sort of monsters!)= Court lore
Rigging Monkey renamed balcony monkey or so


For the fighter, give it at 10th level. I know it is too much, but this is a feat than should had been created, so it is a must for the class. Ans the other abilities are too weak to be used at higher levels.

Using 2 tricks slots, the swashbuckler should get enhancements for some tricks:

-Give commands gives bowsprit blessing with a short speach.
-Underwater fighting (use my restrictions for the trick, your own trick as the enhanced trick)
-Son of a Gun: sharpshooter equivalence (no disadvantage at long range).
 
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Quickleaf

Legend
Holy crap you've been busy [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION]!! And [MENTION=6787234]peterka99[/MENTION]. It's a good thing you tagged me this time because I still can't find where you posted my name but I do at least see the post (and read the tag in my email update) lol. I will try to take a look tonight. You are right, I haven't really felt totally comfortable with just the rogue but it was the closest thing that fit... I wouldn't want to lose my cool trinkets though ;) so I will check it out. Jon's busy grading (school just ended and his grades are due by tomorrow night I think) but hopefully I can drag him away for a bit to help me look it over.
I blame it on my OCD. ;) Er, no actually, mostly I blame my insomnia.

Good luck to Jon. I used to tutor special ed and I once helped a co-worker do grades. It is probably one of the least fun parts of a teacher's tasks. And, yes, I though something like Swashbuckler (called it Pirate or Corsair if you prefer) would fit Katerina better.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Almost perfect!
Thanks to your help!

-Pirate's curse should be restricted to sea mages
I have a difference of opinion with you here. In a game where Fighters can be Eldritch Knights, Rogues can be Arcane Tricksters, and any character can pick up some Cantrips and a 1st-level spell with a feat, it's clear the boundaries of who can do magic and who cannot is blurred. Also, thematically it fits with the pirate having an aura of supernatural menace and picking up a few voodoo tricks. Perhaps, since it is a 3rd level spell, I should add a prerequisite: 7th level.

-Splice the Main Brace is dropped ? Extending the 2 existing abilities to a crew size is not a nice trick ?
Not dropped. I like the idea... I just haven't figured out how to write it up yet. Also having trouble differentiating it from Song of Rest which lets you benefit all friendly creatures who can hear you (i.e. potentially all hands on the deck of a ship).

-Barbarian highest ability, ruthless strike: I still don`t like ruthless... What is the literacy or historic justification ?

- Fearsome Scourge: The trick is too powerful. Maybe this is a correct 18th level ability for the fighter, or 14th for the barb ... just remove the intimidation preq then!
Yeah, you may be right.

The idea behind Ruthless Strike is to hit the enemy where they are injured. Tons of movie scenes where the villain squeezes the hero's wounded shoulder or kicks their wounded leg, that sort of thing.

-In comics and novels, Conan as Amra the Lion is able to free slaves when hired as an unwilling passenger
by a press gang and take a ship without problems. Can it be a nice trick , since you have night raid ? Ship uprising ?
Yeah, that's a great example. Making that idea into an actual trick, especially making it relevant rules-wise, and getting the wording right, is very....well...tricky.

-Freestyle should be a battle master ability (or rogue investigator, as a recent thread), not a corsair ability.
A Swashbuckler knows the tricks, then i'll use your term, with different tricks for a musketeer-like archetype.
I think I can work on this tricks list variant later... Then the archetype will apply also to Alexandre Dumas' style campaigns!
Haha, ok let's call it a Corsairbuckler? Or a Swashirate? ;) The premise that I was going off of was that a naval officer would more likely be a Fighter (Battlemaster), so the idea was the Swashbuckler (who is more of a rapscallion) would be skilled at avoiding getting knocked prone, pushed backwards, etc. I was trying to reinforce the archetype of the nimble warrior... Though perhaps it didn't work like I intended?

For the fighter, give it at 10th level. I know it is too much, but this is a feat than should had been created, so it is a must for the class. Ans the other abilities are too weak to be used at higher levels.
You mean give the Fighter at 10th level Freestyle Fighting? Hmm, yes that does seem like too much... Perhaps as a choice between either Swashbuckling Step OR Freestyle Fighting it works?

Using 2 tricks slots, the swashbuckler should get enhancements for some tricks:

-Give commands gives bowsprit blessing with a short speach.
-Underwater fighting (use my restrictions for the trick, your own trick as the enhanced trick)
-Son of a Gun: sharpshooter equivalence (no disadvantage at long range).
Interesting! In the final verdict that may be more work than I care to put in, but interesting nevertheless.
 

Queenie

Queen of Everything
Haha, ok let's call it a Corsairbuckler? Or a Swashirate? ;) The premise that I was going off of was that a naval officer would more likely be a Fighter (Battlemaster), so the idea was the Swashbuckler (who is more of a rapscallion) would be skilled at avoiding getting knocked prone, pushed backwards, etc. I was trying to reinforce the archetype of the nimble warrior... Though perhaps it didn't work like I intended?

This was my issue... for example in our game Barrington is more a Battlemaster and Katerina is more... something else. More roguish definitely (your work rapscallion fits I think) but is also more fighter than a rogue normally is.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
This was my issue... for example in our game Barrington is more a Battlemaster and Katerina is more... something else. More roguish definitely (your work rapscallion fits I think) but is also more fighter than a rogue normally is.
I love swashbuckling media (obviously), and I was somewhat disappointed there wasn't a class archetype in the PHB that felt more...well...swashbuckler-y! So I figured, since I'm running a pirate campaign for you guys, I might as well try my hand at writing something up. And it's turned out pretty well after a few iterations! I didn't design it "for" your character, of course, but I definitely had your character in mind while I was working on it.

As far as comparing Swashbuckler with the Thief roguish archetype, here are my thoughts...

The Thief at 3rd level can climb fast and jump farther (almost, but not quite, like the Rigging Monkey seafarer trick). But the main thing is the thief has really fast hands, so you can do more on your turn...things like Sleight of Hand, using thieves' tools to disarm a trap or open a lock, or grabbing a rope all in the blink of an eye. At later levels the Thief gets very Stealthy, can use magic items usually restricted to other classes, and becomes super fast at the start of combat.

The Swashbuckler at 3rd level gets two seafarer tricks (one could be the Rigging Monkey to approximate the thief's ability). Also, the Swashbuckler can add their proficiency bonus to their unarmored AC when wielding a finesse weapon, so is a bit harder to hit than the Thief (particularly as they gain levels). At later levels the Swashbuckler gets more seafarer tricks, can exploit advantage to quickly Shove their enemies, is good at avoiding opportunity attacks, and is wise to various combat maneuvers that might be used to bring them to justice.
 

peterka99

First Post
another trick: proficiency in mutiny and slave pen uprising!

We skipped so far the multiclassing issue; as I first mentionned this multi-classing archetypes, I should fill the gap...

the rule for Unarmored defense is to forbid to get it from 2 sources. fine.

For the other abilities, it should be different, because saying "too bad, multiclass to something else,
we don't want a fighter-thief swashbuckler" is Lame!

Multiclassing: Spellcasting rule- Your capacity for the swashbuckler abilities depends partly on your combined levels in all your swashbuckler classes and partly on your individual levels in those classes.

A character may substitute an ability if it is already taken and the combined levels are still enough for the class ability one just gets a level in.

ex: swashbuckling step instead of underhand tactics at combined 10th for a fighter of 7th level than just turn barbarian 3th level.


Other Meta-archetypes like this seafaring should include other genres: psionic, investigation, etc.
 
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Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=8058]Queenie[/MENTION]
You know, I've been using a sort of fighter / rogue hybrid class (with a few touches for flair) for making NPCs. But maybe it is something that would fit your character? Hadn't thought of that before...lemme do a quick writeup in case you (or anyone else) would like to use it for their character. :)

"Pirate" fighter/rogue hybrid class

Class Features
As a pirate, you have the following class features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d10 per pirate level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier 
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per pirate level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor
Weapons: Martial weapons
Tools: Choose one from cartographer's tools, navigator's tools, or watercraft
Saving Throws: Dexterity, Charisma
Skills: Choose three from Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Performance, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth 

Level Progression
  1. Fighting Style, Piratical Proficiency, Thieves' Cant
  2. Pirate's Cunning Action
  3. Pirate Archetype
  4. Ability Score Improvement (or Feat)
  5. Extra Attack
  6. Bonus Seafarer Trick
  7. Pirate Archetype feature
  8. Ability Score Improvement (or Feat)
  9. Pirate's Luck
  10. Pirate Archetype feature
  11. Extra Attack (2)
  12. Ability Score Improvement (or Feat)
  13. Pirate's Luck
  14. Bonus Seafarer Trick
  15. Pirate Archetype feature
  16. Ability Score Improvement (or Feat)
  17. Improved Cunning Action, Pirate's Luck
  18. Pirate Archetype feature
  19. Ability Score Improvement (or Feat)
  20. Stroke of Luck

Fighting Style
At 1st level you adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options.

"Archery": You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.

Finesse Defense: While you are wielding a finesse weapon, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.

Dueling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.

Two-Weapon Fighting: When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack. 

Piratical Proficiency
At 1st level you may either gain a bonus skill of your choice, or two bonus tool proficiencies of your choice.

Thieves' Cant
At 1st level you learn Thieves' Cant as a language.

Pirate's Cunning Action
Starting at 2nd level, your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. You can take a bonus action on each of your turns in combat. This action can be used only to take the Dash, Disengage, or Tumble action. 

Pirate Archetype
At 3rd level, choose either the Battle Master fighter archetype (see the PHB) or the Swashbuckler homebrew archetype. Your archetype grants you features at 3rd level and again at 7th, 10th, 15th, and 18th level. 

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature. Alternately, you may select a feat instead.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class.

Bonus Seafarer Trick
When you reach 6th level, and again at 14th level, choose a bonus Seafarer Trick from the Swashbuckler archetype. Alternately, instead of a Seafarer Trick you may select a Good Fortune without needing to take an Ill Fortune to offset it.

Pirate's Luck
At 9th level add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) to a saving throw of your choice that you're not proficient in. Do the same for a different saving throw at 13th level, and again at 17th level.

Improved Cunning Action
At 17th level you gain two bonus actions to use with Cunning Action on each of your turns (breaking the normal rules), though you must use each bonus action to perform a different action.

Stroke of Luck
At 20th level, you have an uncanny knack for succeeding when you need to. If your attack misses a target within range, you can turn the miss into a hit. Alternatively, if you fail an ability check, you can treat the d20 roll as a 20. Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest. 
 

peterka99

First Post
By the way, Quickleaf, did you adapt your Tales of the Caliphate Nights to d&d 5th? I own a GURPS supplement and a fairly good history and litterature background about this era myself...

Your spell & crossbones play by post seems cold. Let me know when you'll get some room for a new player.
 
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