[SWD20] Why can't I play a Battle Droid?

[RodneyThompson]

The droids had certain autonomous functions but no decision-making abilities, thus giving them partial sentience. They would therefore perform functions like firing and aiming weapons based on local intelligence, as well as certain interactions with the populace (such as the droid commander's conversation with Qui-Gon). However, they would periodically take orders from the control ship, and they would be designed to shut down in the absence of those orders. This model is somewhat difficult to rationalize, since it is difficult to imagine how one would produce an artificial intelligence that could mimic so many of the characteristics of sentient human beings without being able to make even the smallest decisions.

Bingo, this is the model I always go with. Battle Droids have small, semi-independent processors that control basic motor functions, low-level decision making (which target do I shoot first?) and include basic organic-interaction functions so that sentients can give battle droids orders without having to be at the control panel. However, the dominant set of instructions comes from the droid control computer, and without its instructions they are incapable of functioning independently. The fact that they have a sense of humor, talk to one another, and have rank is merely there as a convenience for sentients, and are simply emoted representations of internal computer functions. When a droid says "roger roger" he's really doing so for the benefit of observing sentients, and is in truth sending a return signal to the control computer saying "order acknowledged, proceeding." The officer battle droids might be equipped with more advanced analysis software, and thus act as the "field analysis" part of the army, sending assessments back to the control computer which then makes the command decision. What looks like an officer battle droid ordering a grunt battle droid is really a sequence of field analysis-> data sent to control computer -> control computer makes decision -> commands sent to battle droids. It just looks like the officer is giving the order, so that observing sentients can relate (and, thus, intervene in the process if needed).

I would not allow a battle droid in my game without compelling reason, because A) cultural bias would likely make all sentients dislike the droid, B) the battle droid armies are shut down at the end of RotS, and C) they're more flimsy than aluminum foil.

 

[Operator]

Well, with regards to 'sentience' of the B1 series, I think several good arguments counter to mine have been raised. I also think it's a subject we could spend eons of back and worth bickering on, with no clear resolution.

In the sake of returning ENWorld back into a gaming related board, let's just take as a given that in some way you can make one playable. Be it by accepting my theory, with a brain swap, extensive reprograming, or pixie dust... Someone we get one a brain.

Moridin has summed up the most compelling objections to a B1 Battle Droid PC:

A) cultural bias would likely make all sentients dislike the droid.
During the Rebellion Era, and the Clone War, this is an obvious problem. However, bias agianst a player charcater's species and/or profession is a common problem for many beloved character archetypes in many genres of SW RPG. Smugglers, Bounty Hunters, Aliens, Jedi, et al. are all disliked in one form or another.

In a Clone War (or earlier) game, I conceed they would not fit in. NJO era would likewise be iffy. In the Intra-Trilogy Period or Galatic Civil War they could fit in. Regardless, I think this is a question of a specific campaign's tone, I would not allow Jedi or Rebels in my recent Imperial-based campaign.

B) the battle droid armies are shut down at the end of RotS.
Yes. Yes they were. All the Jedi were purged during the same period, but that hasn't stopped us from having them as part of the campign now has it? Frankly, I see it easier for a droid to escape the wrath of the Empire than an a Padawan Learner...

C) they're more flimsy than aluminum foil.
Not really. I'll admidt, I don't have my rulebook on me, but the B1 Battle Droids are just as 'flimsy' as any Heroic character with the same class levels, feats, HP, and skills. A B1 is, iirc, considered to have one-or-two Soldier class levels, putting him on par with a Human or Wookie Soldier of equivelent ECL. As a PC, our pluckly little droid will gain experince and potency.

A Kobold is a very flimsy creature, but a Kobold Ftr 4 isn't flimsy any more.

D) Droids make poor heroes. You can't tell a good story about a peice of gear.
Two names: R2-D2 and C-3PO.

Other names: I, Robot, Bladerunner, Ghost in the Shell, ST:TNG's Data and ST:Voy's Doctor. Or my personal favorite story of a non-sentient, non-living, and 'I'm not evil, I'm just programmed that way." 2001's Hal.

E) Can't you just make a normal character.[/i]
Yes. Yes I could. But years of playing Jedi, Smugglers, Wookies, and Astromechs have me wanting to experiment. Ewok Jedi, Slustan Sith Knights, and Wookie X-Wing Aces aren't my thing...

 

[Operator]

Correction, the B1 Battle Droid is a Thug 1. I still belive my point is valid.

 

[AmorphousBlob]

I'll give it to you that you could play a B1, at least from a game balance perspective. My personal argument is that, at least as far as I'm concerned, you couldn't do it without having some condition altered. If I were GMing a campaign and you wanted to play a B1, I would allow it, assuming you could give me a good reason as to why the B1 is thinking independently. The facts that you state are entirely pointless in my eyes because of what I like to call the "space fire" reason, so named because fire isn't supposed to be possible in space, and yet we frequently see explosions and other fire in space battles in the Star Wars movies. In other words, just because something doesn't necessarily make sense as far as the real world is concerned, your logic doesn't necessarily change anything because the simple fact remains that we're not talking about the real world.

 

[Dagger75]

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/preq/tf.html#battledroids

I seem to recall this article stating some theories about droid army. I hope this helps. If you care I would have no problem with you playing a battle droid. I always thought the "officer" droids had brains but where just following orders. They probly upgraded the system after the incident over Naboo.

Good luck.

 

[Falkus]

After reading through this entire discussion, I have come to one conclusion: Now I want to play a Battle Droid.

 

[Operator]

Fire, or rather an explosiive fireball, is very much possible in space. The ships are filled with an oxygen atmosphere, munitions, and usually flamable fuel. Ship gets destroyed, this stuff burns. In one of the best episodes of Babylon 5 two minor characters stare out a window and discuss the progress of a battle. The fighter pilot points out that all the green explosions meant that they (the humans) were winning. The attacking aliens breathed some other gas, which burned green.

I refer you to: http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Analysis.html

 

[AmorphousBlob]

Even if my example isn't the best argument, my point still stands. If you want to really prove to me that the droids absolutely cannot work the way Episode I shows them to, build one yourself and show me every way that remote control would work. Only then would you have proven your point beyond a shadow of a doubt to me. I'm not saying you're wrong, all I'm saying is that as far as I've seen, you haven't proven anything, even with the considerable effort you've put into this.

 

[Operator]

To clairify: I am relaying how I see them acting on screen during TPM and AotC. It is my opinion that the films contradict sources such as Incredible Cross Sections, Essenstial Guide, and the RCR.

When role-playing in an established universe, be it Star Wars, Star Trek, Beverly Hills 90210 or Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it is my feeling that you must adopt a high level of 'Suspension of Disbelief' Characters and Game-masters will inevitably explore ascpect of the game universe thet were never explored in film. Game designers will want to do the same.

When building atop canon material, which has a fairly strict Lucasfilm defined hierarchy in the case of SW, you want to be as close and as accurate to that source material as possible, thusly, I like to pretend that:

Pretends that the fictional universe is real, which means that the films and TV shows are considered documentary footage and books are treated as if they were real stories, historical records, official spec sheets, etc.

Thus if you were to design a Buffy the Vampire Slayer 'Guide to Europe' you would want to pay strict attention to the events, locations, and 'feel' that they gave Europe in the series. When designing new vehicles for Star Wars, you woudl look to the ones shown in the films.

I'm not saying you're wrong, all I'm saying is that as far as I've seen, you haven't proven anything, even with the considerable effort you've put into this.

Of course, even with all the analysis hoops I can make myself jump through, we are just pissing in the wind. We are discussing a schlocky scape opera, Saturday mantinee, teen romance. We cannot take out a stopwatch and clock the top speed of an X-Wing. George Lucas could film an Episode VIII in which all the main character dance the can-can...

But I've already conceeded that my arguments will not be able to convince everyone, and have attempted to steer this conversation into discussing the other pros and cons of a B1 Battle Droid PC, assuming that by whatever reason it is given autonomy.

 

[radferth]

I am not a SWd20 player, but I love a discussion of HTHDTH moments in the movies. As network administrator of a MS Windows shop, it occurs to me that the easiest way (and surely non-cannonical) to explain the battle droid behavior is that the Droid Crontrol Ship is important not because it contains some sort of droid control central (although it probably does), but is important because it contains the Droid Licensing Server. The Neimodians built these droids and cheap mercenaries, not as their own army (IIRC). One way to make them cheap is to rent them rather than sell them. If they planned to rent the droids out on a per-battle basis, then they would keep a Droid Licensing Server on the Droid Control Ship. After one battle, the droids would shut down unless the buyer had purchased a licsense for the next battle as well. Thus distroying the control ship would cease the licensing signal, causing the army to shut down, believing that they were now out of licensure. Of course, this feature was not installed on battle droids produced later, as the Nemoidians would have built these for their own cause.