D&D (2024) Sword Coast population data from 2024 D&D Pocket Expert

[Parmandur]

Still utterly ludicrous. A city with no water sources in the middle of nowhere without the support of a massive empire is twice the size of Paris, Rome or pretty much any other of the largest historical cities?

There’s just no way.

As noted uptrend, Waterdeep does control the rural farming Dessarin Valley...which is the size of the whole British Isles. Plus Goldenfields pumping out extra food.

Still, I prefer the 1E era population numbers, both because they are still "Big City", more plausible, and more in line with the cities of the Easter Heartlands, being more impressive regionally than globally.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

What's the population of Elthurel?

 

[Ancalagon]

No, Waterdeep is fed by Golden fields, an Abbey dedicated to using high level Cleric and Druid magic to mass produce food thwt was established by one of Greenwoods players.

Waterdeep's ballooned population is a direct result of taking D&D magic to a logical consequence.

See, Rome had about a million, and their secret was grain shipped from Egypt. That was possible because Rome dominated Egypt, it was a Roman province. Waterdeep doesn't have that hold on other parts of the area.

Given the somewhat northerly climate, I don't anticipate that the area is naturally very productive, from an agricultural point of view. This Golden Fields would have to be incredibly productive to feed 2 millions!

This abbey has a population of 5 000. If we look at modern farmeropulation ratio, it's about 2%, if memory serves? This abbey, if they were as productive as modern agriculture (a mighty magical feat!), would be able to feed 250 000 people

... and that feels more right that 2 millions, doesn't it?

 

[Parmandur]

See, Rome had about a million, and their secret was grain shipped from Egypt. That was possible because Rome dominated Egypt, it was a Roman province. Waterdeep doesn't have that hold on other parts of the area.

Given the somewhat northerly climate, I don't anticipate that the area is naturally very productive, from an agricultural point of view. This Golden Fields would have to be incredibly productive to feed 2 millions!

This abbey has a population of 5 000. If we look at modern farmeropulation ratio, it's about 2%, if memory serves? This abbey, if they were as productive as modern agriculture (a mighty magical feat!), would be able to feed 250 000 people

... and that feels more right that 2 millions, doesn't it?

Goldenfields is magical, plus a whole Oregon/United Kingdom of normal farmland that is dependent on Warerdeep.

But again, personally, I prefer the 1E numbers.

 

[Ancalagon]

Goldenfields is magical, plus a whole Oregon/United Kingdom of normal farmland that is dependent on Warerdeep.

But again, personally, I prefer the 1E numbers.

I made the golden field farmers as productive as modern farmers (that's VERY magical!), and calculated a reasonable amount of people that could be fed would be 250 000.

Your answer is that it's very very magical? Why not just have food rain down from the sky? People from waterdeep have their stomachs removed at birth and thus don't need to eat?

If there is too much magic, then it's all just made up, nothing matters.

 

[Parmandur]

I made the golden field farmers as productive as modern farmers (that's VERY magical!), and calculated a reasonable amount of people that could be fed would be 250 000.

I see nonreason why 5,000 high level Clerics and Druids would be so limited. But also, note my answer is that I prefer the "122,000 bloating to half a million during market season" from FR1.

Your answer is that it's very very magical?

Yes, very.

Why not just have food rain down from the sky?

Sure, why not?

People from waterdeep have their stomachs removed at birth and thus don't need to eat?

Groovy.

If there is too much magic, then it's all just made up, nothing matters.

Bingo, you got it: literally in play this will never, ever come up.

 

[Zardnaar]

See, Rome had about a million, and their secret was grain shipped from Egypt. That was possible because Rome dominated Egypt, it was a Roman province. Waterdeep doesn't have that hold on other parts of the area.

Given the somewhat northerly climate, I don't anticipate that the area is naturally very productive, from an agricultural point of view. This Golden Fields would have to be incredibly productive to feed 2 millions!

This abbey has a population of 5 000. If we look at modern farmeropulation ratio, it's about 2%, if memory serves? This abbey, if they were as productive as modern agriculture (a mighty magical feat!), would be able to feed 250 000 people

... and that feels more right that 2 millions, doesn't it?

Slice of England or France could have 2 million say 17th century. Northern climate.

That part is believable without Goldenfields.

 

[Hussar]

The fact that you're asking all these questions means you haven't read neither the 1E nor the 3E campaign books. That's fine...BUT, the FR wiki is out there and it sources from the campaign books. All this information is sourced there.

Btw, here is what it says about trading:

"The city was the hub of trading from the mineral-rich lands to the north, the merchant kingdoms of Amn and Calimshan to the south, the kingdoms of the Inner Sea to the east, and the sea kingdoms and traders to the west. The city was also the largest spelljamming port of Faerûn. Although welcoming to most spacefaring races, Waterdeep's laws required that all ships landed on the ocean several miles from the city and made their final approach by sea. Sages and traders from Waterdeep were eager to listen to stories from wildspace and traded on all the products the city had to offer."

Also, Waterdeep does have a Naval Fleet with it's own harbor, and that's sourced from the City of Splendor's Book published in 2005.
View attachment 384041

Again. Not an explanation for a population of TWO MILLION.

Also, trade to the east? How? Across the Anauroch desert? With no actual waterways accessible?

Oh and for those pointing to real world cities with 2 million population, there’s something else those cities share. An actual source of fresh water in the city.

Again, not having a problem with Waterdeep being big. But two million big? That’s ridiculous. Good grief if they had numbers like that, why would they not have vasalized the entire Sword Coast from Baldurs Gate to the Ten Towns? Who could stop them when they are 100 times larger?

 

[Parmandur]

Also, trade to the east? How? Across the Anauroch desert? With no actual waterways accessible?

Oh, boy, talking about the weeds again:

Waterdeep is very roughly ~800 miles from the Anauroch (measuring woth my thumb and pointer finger on the SCAG map, might be off), and not remotely coincidentally, Waterdeep is directly in line with the Northern border of the High Moor. Thwt means that anything in the square between the Anaouroch and the High Moor and accompanying mountains (an area which is absolutely enormous and resource rich) has only one natural outlet to bring raw materials to the outside world that will pay top dollar: even going further North om the Sword Coast has to go through Waterdeep to supply. So, yeah, everything from the "Savage Frontier" gers traded overland through Waterdeep. Ed Greenwood cares about that particular sort of thing a lot.

Oh and for those pointing to real world cities with 2 million population, there’s something else those cities share. An actual source of fresh water in the city.

No joke, from Undermountain. Also, probvdecanters of water makin'.

Again, not having a problem with Waterdeep being big. But two million big? That’s ridiculous. Good grief if they had numbers like that, why would they not have vasalized the entire Sword Coast from Baldurs Gate to the Ten Towns? Who could stop them when they are 100 times larger?

I agree, that is a silly number. Going into the history of this, when WotC randomly changed the size of Faerûn for 3E, they also randomly grew Waterdeep's population while shrinking other comparable cities around the Inner Sea....weird.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I wonder if these population censuses ever count the sentient beings that live just under the city, because there might be a lot of them too.