WampusCat43
Explorer
I'm having to deal with this very issue, and I think Nymrohd's ruling makes the most sense. If you use that weapon 2-handed (for a bonus) you give up a defense bonus.
sword mage question !
- Thread starter Evenglare
- Start date
DracoSuave
First Post
The question tho is this...
If the swordmage is getting +1 to damage....
.... big deal?
It's not equivalent to Weapon Focus. At heroic tier, it's +1 to damage. At Paragon tier, it's +1 to damage. At epic tier, it's +1 to damage.
Even on paper it might seem to be a good bonus, but when you compare it to a -real- two-handed weapon, it's -nothing.- It doesn't scale to higher [W], it doesn't get better with higher levels.
And more importantly, it's only +1 with weapon attacks. Implements are one-handed by default, so you'd end up not getting any damage bonus with implement attacks, [W]-using or not.
If the swordmage is getting +1 to damage....
.... big deal?
It's not equivalent to Weapon Focus. At heroic tier, it's +1 to damage. At Paragon tier, it's +1 to damage. At epic tier, it's +1 to damage.
Even on paper it might seem to be a good bonus, but when you compare it to a -real- two-handed weapon, it's -nothing.- It doesn't scale to higher [W], it doesn't get better with higher levels.
And more importantly, it's only +1 with weapon attacks. Implements are one-handed by default, so you'd end up not getting any damage bonus with implement attacks, [W]-using or not.
LittleFuzzy
First Post
Ok. If it's not a big deal, then the player trying to get it should be perfectly happy to not get it. In fact, since it's so unimportant the sword-mage player would never even try to get it.
Ok. If it's not a big deal, then the player trying to get it should be perfectly happy to not get it. In fact, since it's so unimportant the sword-mage player would never even try to get it.
Then tell the battleragers they shouldn't try get their +2 to damage on every attack when they have temp hp, or the tempest fighters they shouldn't get their damage bonus on every attack with off-hand weapons.
Swordmage's are already do the lowest damage of all the defender classes, this is just throwing them a bone, one that has been confirmed as legal by WOTC. Even with the +1 to damage, the standard swordmage is still behind the other defenders in damage. (I say standard because there is probably some odd build that let's a swordmage do a lot of damage.)
DracoSuave
First Post
As an aside:
I love arguements that try to bring up Rules As Intended when the 'RAI' runs counter to the FAQ that is developed and put together by the developers who make the Rules, and are able to make known what their intention is. I'm not arguing that your interpretations are bad, or that you're wrong for having them, but saying it's RAI when it's obviously not is a misinformed argument at best, and misinforming at worst.
I love arguements that try to bring up Rules As Intended when the 'RAI' runs counter to the FAQ that is developed and put together by the developers who make the Rules, and are able to make known what their intention is. I'm not arguing that your interpretations are bad, or that you're wrong for having them, but saying it's RAI when it's obviously not is a misinformed argument at best, and misinforming at worst.
By your logic a swordmage could never sheath his weapon because that would make him lose his warding until he completed a short rest with his weapon drawn the whole time
Eldorian
First Post
Rules as written, you're hard pressed to rule that picking something up in your offhand reduces your shielding bonus until you take a rest.
Rules as intended, it's obvious that you can't switch how you hold your sword every round to gain a +1 damage for wielding a versatile weapon, as still gain your +3 ac.
If I must point out why it's obvious, it's because 4e game rules are meant to be transparent, and no one I've talked to came up with this idea until they read about it on the forums. You only come to this conclusion if you trying to squeeze everything you can out of the rules. 3e was meant to have hidden "good" options, and hidden "bad" options. Not so with this edition.
That said, how we rule it in my game is that the bonus depends on what you did that round. If at any time in the round you picked something up with your offhand, you lose the offhand free bonus until the start of your next turn.
Rules as intended, it's obvious that you can't switch how you hold your sword every round to gain a +1 damage for wielding a versatile weapon, as still gain your +3 ac.
If I must point out why it's obvious, it's because 4e game rules are meant to be transparent, and no one I've talked to came up with this idea until they read about it on the forums. You only come to this conclusion if you trying to squeeze everything you can out of the rules. 3e was meant to have hidden "good" options, and hidden "bad" options. Not so with this edition.
That said, how we rule it in my game is that the bonus depends on what you did that round. If at any time in the round you picked something up with your offhand, you lose the offhand free bonus until the start of your next turn.
DracoSuave
First Post
As I said, it's impossible to rule 'This is rules as intended' when, in fact, those whose intent determines the rules have said 'You can switch as a free action and get your +3 bonus.'
You -do- know the FAQ is the result of the developers' decisions, right? If you do, then whose 'intentions' do you mean by 'Rules as Intended'?
You -do- know the FAQ is the result of the developers' decisions, right? If you do, then whose 'intentions' do you mean by 'Rules as Intended'?
Of course, Custserv has a long and inglorious history of not being taken seriously in rules arguments.
And, you know, TANSTAAFL and all that.
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