"Swords are no more use here"

[Tzimiscedracul]

Hi!

I’m new to the forums but I’d like to give a suggestion: what do you think of a SR variant mechanic that reduces the caster level of an attacking spell? Like, for example, a demon with Variant SR 10 would reduce the caster level of any spell used against him by 10. You could also select that just certain spells are affected by this SR. For example: Evocation [Fire]. Or that certain spells ignore the SR.

I don’t know if this would work, just a thought.

(Sorry for any problems with my English)

 

[Barak]

Modifying monsters so that certain type of spells bypass the SR would seem to me as be a good way of making it more akin to DR.

"Oh sure, it's virtually impossible to harm a Balor with a fireball, and most of the time, a lightning bolt, he'll just shrug off as well. But have you ever tried a Cone of Cold on one? Oh boy."

 

[Darkness]

"Oh sure, it's virtually impossible to harm a Balor with a fireball, and most of the time, a lightning bolt, he'll just shrug off as well. But have you ever tried a Cone of Cold on one? Oh boy."

Sorta like applying elemental resistances/immunities (possibly increased for some monsters, to compensate for loss of SR utility, where applicable) but not SR? Some (Conjuration) spells already work like that, so I suppose it could be done without re-tooling the system too much (merely the defensive SQs of the creatures in question).

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Maybe D&D should be changed, so that SR isn't just a blanket defence against all spells equally (well, those that allow it at all, of course), but rather be confined to specific types of spells. Thus, undead might have SR 20/Necromancy, or whatever.

I was about to say the same thing. Allow some kinds of spells to bypass the SR - that's such an obvious and cool bit of flavor, I wonder why I've never heard anyone suggest it before!

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

OK, let's take this a little further. Demons and Devils could have SR X/Holy, so that Holy spells bypass their SR. That helps clerics, but what about wizards? One could imagine a class of magic items that infuses spells with Holy power - a kind of Energy Substitution. Heck, I'd bet such things already exist somwehere.

What are the other major categories of creatures with SR? Undead, various outsiders,fey...

 

[Sammael]

Let me put it this way: have you ever seen a fighter's player get pissed that he missed?

Many times.

Okay, how about a mage's player.

Many times as well.

To your point, a counterpoint. Even at high levels, a fighter does not have a single attack that can end the combat in one round, if successful. A wizard, on the other hand, gains one such spell at 7th (!) class level: phantasmal killer. Who needs to be equalized here?

 

[Sammael]

I am not against removing SR. However, in that case, many high-level save-or-die spells need to be nerfed or removed. And by save-or-die, I also mean spells that effectively remove the creature from combat.

 

[Kodam]

Hi!

Giants tend to be target-practice for Wizards. Flying opponents with reach can leave melee-monsters quite frustrated. YMMV

Kodam

 

[Giddeon]

To your point, a counterpoint. Even at high levels, a fighter does not have a single attack that can end the combat in one round, if successful. A wizard, on the other hand, gains one such spell at 7th (!) class level: phantasmal killer. Who needs to be equalized here?

Ok, look at that spell in the PHB. It has SR and if you get past that, a will save and then a fort save. Not the best example to use.

I think it is not meant to see which class is better than the other. It is matter of which classes best compliment each other. Once a wizard uses up the spells he/she has memorized, it doesn't matter if one of those spells does 80 points of damage or just 2. SR is very detrimental to a wizard. Of course, damage resistance is detrimental to a fighter or other melee oriented classes.

 

[Endur]

Swords are no more use here

The usual way to have a "swords are no more use here" is to put forth some monster that is too terrrible to be defeated in melee. The CR is too high. A Balor vs a low level Group. Then leave some magical vulnerability that the PCs can exploit if they choose not to flee.