Swords under the Sun — Blades in the Dark meets Dungeon World

[Emerikol]

SutS (and other Forged in the Dark games) assume that what exactly success means changes depending on the situation, and in tandem with assessing risk, it represents difficulty. So, the difference between riding through snow and ice at 35, 60, and 90mph is:

• 35mph: you can get there, but you risk getting stuck
• 60mph: you'll crash regardless of what you roll, but the result will determine how bad did you crash
• 90mph: ain't gonna work. If you do it, you are dead. Try something else.

I've long thought that degrees of success is something even skilled play OSR style games could benefit from in a variety of ways. I saw this mechanic in the Edge of Empire game for the first time and thought with some modifications this could be used in D&D.

 

[SteveC]

This looks amazing, really good stuff.

 

[aramis erak]

And w see the "you must not be aware" condescension begin...

Are you familiar with PbtA games or how Position and Effect in Blades in the Dark works? Or dice pools in BitD?

Yes, I'm familiar with both. I find the lack of difficulty is an issue for me. In other words, it's a position that I cannot enjoy, because I cannot suspend disbelief. What part of that was unclear in my prior, extensive, post?

 

[aramis erak]

SutS (and other Forged in the Dark games) assume that what exactly success means changes depending on the situation, and in tandem with assessing risk, it represents difficulty. So, the difference between riding through snow and ice at 35, 60, and 90mph is:

• 35mph: you can get there, but you risk getting stuck
• 60mph: you'll crash regardless of what you roll, but the result will determine how bad did you crash
• 90mph: ain't gonna work. If you do it, you are dead. Try something else.

And that change breaks suspension of disbelief due to being too harsh, since it's possible to do 60 without crashing... just unlikely.
90 is theoretically possible, but not particularly plausible in practice.

 

[Aldarc]

And w see the "you must not be aware" condescension begin...

Yes, I'm familiar with both. I find the lack of difficulty is an issue for me. In other words, it's a position that I cannot enjoy, because I cannot suspend disbelief. What part of that was unclear in my prior, extensive, post?

That's not my intention. You could have easily stated the latter without including malign assumptions in the bold. In regards to the italicized, I think it's a matter of how you frame or conceptualize "difficulty," particularly in regards to Effect and Position, or even general principles of "say yes or roll the dice." As you made the comparison of saying that it was just as easy to drive a car across town as it was to go dangerous, the former of which would not likely call for a die roll in these games, it did come across as a lack of familiarity with how these games work.

 

[TheSword]

The problem with all the F’s and S’s is that it recruits nobody and puts off some. It gains you nothing and costs you some support, so the choice to include it seems a bit barmy. That makes a lot of people wary that there will be other seemingly off putting decisions/language.

There is a reason brands are careful about their image. I guess it comes down to professionalism. Unless of course the plan is to be edgy to capture a market that would be impressed with the expletives as a FU to established publishers. In that case you’re trading the professional image for something to capture attention. Which is a trade off I guess you have to decide about.

 

[loverdrive]

And that change breaks suspension of disbelief due to being too harsh, since it's possible to do 60 without crashing... just unlikely.
90 is theoretically possible, but not particularly plausible in practice.

I barely know anything about driving and I rarely see snow, so I guess I can't effectively judge about the difficulty in that situation. Maybe its not "how badly did you crash", but "the best you can do is get there with a car that would need some serious repair". I don't know anything about cars.

Extraordinary luck and/or skill is handled by critical successes. So, if shooting a Beast through dense fog be at best "you can maybe can hit it, but you wouldn't be able to incapacitate it", then rolling two 6s would result in a hit to a vital organ.

This places a hard ceiling on what can be achieved, but I think that's good.

The problem with all the F’s and S’s is that it recruits nobody and puts off some. It gains you nothing and costs you some support, so the choice to include it seems a bit barmy. That makes a lot of people wary that there will be other seemingly off putting decisions/language.

There is a reason brands are careful about their image. I guess it comes down to professionalism. Unless of course the plan is to be edgy to capture a market that would be impressed with the expletives as a FU to established publishers. In that case you’re trading the professional image for something to capture attention. Which is a trade off I guess you have to make.

Maybe. I don't know anything about marketing role-playing games, and even if I did, it's not like I can make a decent living by selling them.

I guess posting a rough and unedited article was a pretty dumb idea, though.

 

[Eolin]

I guess posting a rough and unedited article was a pretty dumb idea, though.

You know what it reminded me of? This:

DO NOT pre-plan a storyline, and I’m not naughty word around

The word naughty word occurs 160 times in AW 2nd edition. If a word is good enough for the Bakers, then its good enough.

Also: Hi! I found my 20-year old Enworld account so I could post and say Swords Under The Sun is good. Nicely done.

I've wanted something like this since Blades came out. I've tried to write one myself many times, and never liked the result.

Any interest in making a Bard? Or in mechanics suggestions?

 

[loverdrive]

Also: Hi! I found my 20-year old Enworld account so I could post and say Swords Under The Sun is good. Nicely done.

Thanks! That's super flattering to hear

Any interest in making a Bard? Or in mechanics suggestions?

Honestly, I just don't understand bards. I really wanted to make one, but then I couldn't formulate, what's the main thing about them.

The simplest suggestion would be to make a Sorcerer that weaves their magic through a magic flute or ritualistic dance.

 

[Manbearcat]

You know what it reminded me of? This:


The word naughty word occurs 160 times in AW 2nd edition. If a word is good enough for the Bakers, then its good enough.

Also: Hi! I found my 20-year old Enworld account so I could post and say Swords Under The Sun is good. Nicely done.

I've wanted something like this since Blades came out. I've tried to write one myself many times, and never liked the result.

Any interest in making a Bard? Or in mechanics suggestions?

Exactly.

People bitch at me constantly for my use of language on here.

In real life, sometimes people bitch at me for swearing (because I do...a lot).

Swearing doesn’t equal “dumb hick”. And swearing can absolutely and effectively convey rawness and emotion. And the reason why humans use it is because the sounds that curse words make are provocative...sometimes transporting. If you hate Baker already, you’re sure to find AW a turn off. If you feel like swearing is only for Hicks and/or someone pretentiously trying to be “edgy” (same claim against Baker).

It would be nice if people would more often aim for and make games that focus on a niche (like this one does).

As I stated upthread, the game is beatiful and extremely well put-together. There are several different decisions I would have made in the creation of a DW + Blades hack marriage (related to the questions I posted upthread), but all that means is that this game may not be for me...it doesn’t mean it’s not beautiful, well-conceived, well-rendered.