Swordsage Shadow Hand stance

catsclaw227

First Post
Does the Shadow Hand stance of a swordsage create full concealment (50% miss chance) or darkness-style concealment (20% miss chance) when he moves his 10' in a round?

I would have though it was 20% miss chance, since that is what the darkness spell is like, but it could be construed as a 50% miss chance.
 

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catsclaw227 said:
I wish I had my book in front of me, my player has it.
This question came up in my game too. It says "concealment", specifically. (And "concealment" does not mean "invisibility", much to the chagrin of the Swordsage's player in my game...)

EDIT: Specifically, it says "concealment" and not "total concealment"...
 
Last edited:

kaomera said:
EDIT: Specifically, it says "concealment" and not "total concealment"...

Unfortunately, according to the D&D Glossary on WOTC Site concealment is:

concealment
Something that prevents an attacker from clearly seeing his or her target. Concealment creates a chance that an otherwise successful attack misses (a miss chance).

Source: PHB

Just stating "concealment" doesn't define the degree of concealment. Granted, they also define "total concealment" as:

total concealment
Attacks against a target with total concealment have a 50% miss chance. Total concealment blocks line of sight.

Source: PHB

I guess that concealment by itself, with no other definition would folllow the same rules as darkness and grant 20% miss chance.
 

Sure concealment is defined by the rules:
SRD said:
CONCEALMENT

To determine whether your target has concealment from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that provides concealment, the target has concealment.

When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has concealment if his space is entirely within an effect that grants concealment. When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you use the rules for determining concealment from ranged attacks.

In addition, some magical effects provide concealment against all attacks, regardless of whether any intervening concealment exists.

Concealment Miss Chance: Concealment gives the subject of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. If the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance percentile roll to avoid being struck. Multiple concealment conditions do not stack.

Concealment and Hide Checks: You can use concealment to make a Hide check. Without concealment, you usually need cover to make a Hide check.

Total Concealment: If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).

You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.

Ignoring Concealment: Concealment isn’t always effective. A shadowy area or darkness doesn’t provide any concealment against an opponent with darkvision. Characters with low-light vision can see clearly for a greater distance with the same light source than other characters. Although invisibility provides total concealment, sighted opponents may still make Spot checks to notice the location of an invisible character. An invisible character gains a +20 bonus on Hide checks if moving, or a +40 bonus on Hide checks when not moving (even though opponents can’t see you, they might be able to figure out where you are from other visual clues).

Varying Degrees of Concealment:
Certain situations may provide more or less than typical concealment, and modify the miss chance accordingly.
If it just says "concealment" and not "total concealment" there's no ambiguity; you use the rules for concealment instead of for total concealment.
 

starwed said:
Sure concealment is defined by the rules:

If it just says "concealment" and not "total concealment" there's no ambiguity; you use the rules for concealment instead of for total concealment.
PHB p152-153. You can look up those rules from the SRD here. The glossary definition seems unclear because it's just telling you what "concealment" means as a general term; it would be helpful if they could cite a reference for rules related to that term. In any case, there are (typically, there may be exceptions) two types of concealment: normal concealment (20%) and total concealment (50%). "Normal concealment" is just written as "concealment" because the "normal" is redundant in the English language, and D&D doesn't use precisely-defined keywords the way that M:tG does, anyway (see also: the term "level").
 

maybe I am remembering some 3.0 rule about varying levels of concealment, similar to the way cover works. half concealment, 3/4 conceal, etc..
 

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