SWRPG: d20Modernizing the Combat Rules

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I'm going to run a StarWars RPG game over the summer ... planning on setting it in the Old Republic, aprox. 4,255 BBY. Which isn't to say anything other than it'll be right about a period that seems to be unexplored beyond a few words ("The Vultar Cataclysm" a schism between light and dark jedi, apparently, will go on) and far enough in the past that I'm free to do alot of the things I want to. I'm encouraging everybody to go for Jedi characters, do a big Tales of the Jedi styled thing (though right now I think more people would rather play during the Clone Wars ... blah ... one comment about playing ARC Troopers and...).

Here's the thing. Looking through the SWRPG rules there's a few things I don't like.

ONE: Autofire/ Firearms rules and feats.

I actually prefer the d20 Modern system for autofire weapons. It actually allows low-level mooks to sometimes be a danger, by spraying down a 4mx4m square with hot lead, er, bolts. While this would be an easy enough change, it changes the autofire attack from an attack roll vs. defense to a Saving Throw mechanic. This buggers the Jedi "Lightsaber Deflection" gig. I don't like the Autofire/Multifire/Multishot/RapidShot stuff because it's pretty complex, increases the die rolls made, and low-level mooks can't hit the broad side of a barn.

I know, I know. That sounds like the StormTroopers we all know and love. But does anybody have any good ideas for translating this in such a way that jedi keep their abilities? I haven't come up with anything yet, so I'll probably leave that one stand. I just hate rolling a bucket of dice to resolve a squad of autofiring goons when I know nobody will hit anything and 80% or more will miss so badly anyway the jedi won't be able to deflect anything back.

TWO: Striking an object - AKA Sunder - AKA Striking an object.

In SWRPG the AC of an object you try to strike is 15 + (a bunch of modifiers) and doesn't provoke an AoO. In d20 Modern the AC of an object you try to strike is 5 + (a bunch of modifiers) and DOES provoke an AoO. In D&D sundering a held object is an opposed attack roll with modifiers for handedness of the object and DOES provoke an AoO.

Personally, I prefer the D&D method. Why? Because it's easier and easier to remember. There's no tallying defense bonuses from class and dex and determining the size of the object and rolling to hit. Provoke (or don't), you roll, he rolls, add/subtract one of two possible modifiers and yer done.

My question is, does the D&D style overpower Jedi? From what I've heard of people's SWRPG games, the Striking an Object rules are so figgly that few people think of them. The ACs are pretty high in SWRPG ... a blaster would be, on average, something like 20-22 (15 + 2 (obj) + 3 (average-ish class defence) + 0-2 (Dex mod)). That's a pretty respectable AC for, say, a 1st or 2nd level Soldier's weapon. I wouldn't expect everybody to go around slicing weapons when it's alot easier to slice the foe, which is the point I'm sure.

It just feels so much easier to me to go the other way. Opposed rolls means it's much easier for a Jedi to slice up the weapons of lower-level (lower BAB) foes but I don't know how much lower. Say a 3rd level Guardian with 12 Str attacks a 1st level Soldier with 12 Dex and a Blaster Rifle, trying to sunder his weapon. Because ranged weapons don't get AoOs, provoking doesn't matter. The Guardian's average roll is (1d20 {10.5} + 1 (str) + 3 (BAB)) or 14 and the Soldier's average roll is (1d20 {10.5} + 1 (Dex) + 1 (BAB) + 4 (2-handed grip)) or 16. Easier than hitting AC 21 by quite a margin, but ...

--fje

 

[Peterson]

Heap(whatstherestagain),

It's been a long time since I looked at the D20 SW rules, but here goes my first impressions.

ONE: Autofire/ Firearms rules and feats.

In keeping with the idea that Jedi can deflect blaster fire...merely have them choose if they want to make a Reflex check or a Deflect roll. I'm talking D20 Modern Autofire rules, of course. They can't have both. If they choose to Deflect, handle it as written - which I believe is an opposed roll of some sort. If they do Deflect, and fail, then they take damage from One Shot, as if they failed their Reflex Save.

Sounds simple, but I'm not sure if it hits what you want.

Next....
TWO: Striking an object - AKA Sunder - AKA Striking an object.

I would go with the easiest - and the one that makes the most sense to you - method for this very reason. Jedi should always consider attacking the weapon before the user, unless they are Dark Side of course.

There ya go. That's my 2 creds....Republic, of course.

Peterson

 

[Dagger75]

Well you could always put the Jedi modifier to the saving throw as long as the light saber is ignited.

I personally never had issues with the Autofire/Multifire thing. Star Wars is the only game I didn't have trouble hitting the PC's. I had that page bookmarked in the book that gave all the bonuses depending on the feats you had.

Sundering, I used a base AC of 20 + class defense. A higher level character is going to know how to protect his weapon better. Light Sabers usally ate through the weapon pretty easily if they hit.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

My players suggested pretty much the same thing, so we're going to playtest it one of these days before I get the game going entirely.

On the Autofire Attack option, the Jedi can choose to add his Lightsaber (Deflect) bonus and his Lightsaber Defense bonuses to the reflex save to avoid getting hit by autofire. This pumps up the Jedi's already pretty high saving throws but they can also opt NOT to add those bonuses. However ... the DC of the save is equal to 15 or the attack roll, whichever is higher. I never liked the static DC, so this is a rule I've used for a while. As per Deflect using defense, if the Jedi's save is within 5 points of the DC he can deflect a single shot as usual.

So Jedi Jay is being fired on by a Super Battle Droid. It opts for an Autofire attack, which has to hit Def 10. Because it doesn't have the "Autofire Proficiency" feat, the SBD takes a -4 on his attack roll. The SBD gets a 20 on its attack, adjusted to 16; autofire is successful and he targets a 4m square with Jay in it. Jay rolls a saving throw (DC 16) adding his Lightsaber Deflect (Defense) bonus and his Lightsaber Defense feat bonuses to the roll. He opts to use (attack) this round before he rolls, he gets an 18, successful and within 5 points of the DC. He is able to roll an attack with a -4 penalty against the SBD.

Really it's an attack roll at a slightly lower DC which is more likely to frag some classes than others. Also the average saving throw is lower every level than a corresponding total defense bonus, so it remains useful to tag individuals with.

As to easily hitting individuals: I'm not sure. Jedi in particular can get very large defense bonuses vs. ranged weapons. Between lightsaber defense, lightsaber deflect, dex, and class bonus one of the 4th level Guardians a player has built has a flat 17 Defense. +1 Dodge, +3 Defensive Fighting and we've got 21. Adds in Expertise, it's higher. Add in Extend Defense from adjacent Jedi soon and it gets even higher. A jedi interested in not getting hurt by blasters is rather good at it.

--fje