[SWSE] Static Saves and Skills? :(

[Jurble]

Hey guys,
so getting a game of SWSE going hopefully pretty soon, its just coming together at the moment. I was making up character sheets with some friends the other day and it seems like saves are static numbers rather than roll modifiers??

I must admit its the first part of the new system which i dont like so much. Wondering what peoples thoughts are on this and if anyone has house rules to put the dice back in dodging traps and such? Granted there arnt many spike traps in star wars but you never know I really like rolling for saves seems kinda sad to make it a static number?

The other thing is I have a question. I have a player playing a droid whose from the start taking use computer as trained plus putting on skill focus. He's got a nice ability modifier to pump that up to a base of 15!! (lvl 3 char!) So basically anything short of requiring 25 at least is going to be easy pickings.

5 (trained) + 5 (skill focus) + 2 (14INT) + 3 (lvl3 char) = 15!

anyway before working that out I was going to let him take a computer interface appendage (like Artoos) with cost to get a +2 bonus on slicing computer checks (GMs choice on where its appropriate). Now that I look at it that would give him a 17 base for you average use computer check. Seems kind of excessive to me, but that said anything hard to get (information wise) is going to be at least DC25-30. Think I should take it back? (the +2 appendage)

Also am I right in that you dont get extra skills after first level? You dont seem to gain skills after that (what if you raise your INT?)

Thanks guys

 

[Baby Samurai]

It's the same thing, just reversed.

Instead of making a Fort save against an effect from an enemy, the enemy would make a check against your Fort defence score.

Or as a D&D example, instead of casting hold person, and waiting for the DM to roll the enemy's Will saving throw, you roll a magic check against the enemy's Will defence score.

This was a variant originally from Unearthed Arcana. My group loves it in our D&D campaign – more proactive and fun for the players.

 

[Frostmarrow]

And if you indeed want to roll saves do so. Subtract 10 from the score and add 1d20 instead.

Don't worry if a character is a perfect expert in a single field. It won't break the game. Sometimes it's nice to coast through difficulties. If you need to challenge the character just hide the console!

 

[Plane Sailing]

Also am I right in that you dont get extra skills after first level? You dont seem to gain skills after that (what if you raise your INT?)

No automatic skills, but you can use the Skill Training feat to gain an additional trained skill from your class skills.

If you INT goes up, you get an additional trained skill (explained as you getting insight into stuff that you'd heard all along)

 

[Baumi]

Hey guys,
The other thing is I have a question. I have a player playing a droid whose from the start taking use computer as trained plus putting on skill focus. He's got a nice ability modifier to pump that up to a base of 15!! (lvl 3 char!) So basically anything short of requiring 25 at least is going to be easy pickings.

5 (trained) + 5 (skill focus) + 2 (14INT) + 3 (lvl3 char) = 15!

Just wanted to point out that you get only HALF the level (rounded down) as a bonus, so it should be 13 not 15.

 

[Particle_Man]

I must admit its the first part of the new system which i dont like so much. Wondering what peoples thoughts are on this and if anyone has house rules to put the dice back in dodging traps and such? Granted there arnt many spike traps in star wars but you never know I really like rolling for saves seems kinda sad to make it a static number?

From a DM pov, it is great, because you can roll dice, the players won't know why, and if you miss (the equivalent of the players making their save) and the characters would not know what they just resisted, then the players won't either.

Also, players that use attacks that would normally have the victim make a will save (for example) now get to "roll to hit" the victim's Will Defense, so what the players lose on rolling saves, they gain on rolling more attacks.

I also like how it makes sense (to me) that a reflex save and armor class should be the same mechanic. In both cases something is trying to hit you, and you may be good or bad at dodging the attack.

Of course, you could go the other way and have players make defense rolls instead of having a static armor class.

 

[Jurble]

Wow great stuff! thanks a ton!

That actually reminds me. the class feats it seemed abit broken, or maybe i have this wrong?

Was checking out Force Boon for one of my Jedi, doesnt seem to be in the valid choices list for any of the classes. Does that mean you need to have prestige levels in order to pick it or is it an error?

My droid is playing a GH7 medical droid (like at the end of Ep3) but being all jury rigged he's taking 3 levels of scoundrel. I said he could take treat injury as a skill.

thanks for the help guys. Still decided if giving him the +2 use computer check for taking an interface instrument (Artoo style) is a good idea or not. he's going to have hella strong use computer anyway, that said might be worth gettign rid of the bonus but recommending the interface to let him hack most terminals (even lone data ports).

I am tempted to go back to normal saves, to those who have played around with SWSE and simialr save systems you liked it that way? I figure it would be better for the player to get to roll his saves than for the GM to roll against him every time? i dunno what are other opinions?

thanks for the help all

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I am tempted to go back to normal saves, to those who have played around with SWSE and simialr save systems you liked it that way? I figure it would be better for the player to get to roll his saves than for the GM to roll against him every time? i dunno what are other opinions?

It's the same as making an attack roll vs. AC. Players have no "dice control" over that. I haven't had the chance to actually use the new rules, but I like them. They make a lot of sense to me. I'm at least going to try them out before writing them off, even if my players don't take to them right away.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

The new save rules are all about making the ACTIVE character the one who rolls (and about folding AC and Reflex save into one number). So far, both have been big improvements in play. Nothing bogs down a game of D&D like an area effect spell, as every creature within its radius needs a save, often with different bonuses, sometimes listed in different places - and then the different numbers all have to be recorded. With the Saga save system, the player of the active character rolls once and GM and players compare the result to static numbers. The time savings are astonishing.

The skill system is set up so that you can, in fact, be a competent skill user at 1st level, and really, really awesome by 5th or 6th. This is a feature (allowing for skilled noncombatants and heroic savants), not a bug; the idea that a competent character should fail about 50% of the time, or that a starting hero is not competent, has been excised.

I strongly recommend you play at least a few Saga sessions before houseruling. It's a superb bit of design, and you may well find the things you want to revert to their D&D roots are some of the best aspects of the system.

 

[Jurble]

oooh thanks for shedding some light on the topic. Im pretty versed in d20 rules but havnt actually done much PnP DMing at all.

Very good points indeed. Im going to take your advice and stick to the rules and see how they go but i have a feeling I migth stick with em in the end like you said.

Makes more sense now. I was kinda surprised because everything else in the ruleset has impressed me alot over 3.5e. I guess this is definately something that with little actual PnP experience (mostly either NWN on the net or forum play) I havnt really encountered enough to spot straight out.

*energy boost* so pumped to get this game going!