Synthetist is Shameful.

[Pielorinho]

I'm trying to figure out if it's legal. Looking at eidolons, he'd start with a serpentine eidolon with str 12 and dex 16, right? +3 in each due to 9th level is str 15/dex 19. It gets one free ability increase, putting it at str 16. For 10 points, it's up to huge, str 31, dex 15. That's higher than you suggested, but I don't see how without increasing to huge, it can get to the correct str.

Maybe you can list its evolutions?

 

[joah_from_Alberta]

I certainly appreciate the feedback on this subject, gentlemen.

In all honesty, my Eldritch Knight at level 9 would have eaten this Synthesist for breakfast.

It's not that big a deal. A pure caster at 9th level has ARRIVED. With fifth level spells, the caster can cast world affecting magic. Teleport, Wall of Force, Cloudkill, Baleful Polymorph and Dominate Person are available, as is Raise Dead for the Cleric.

Want to teach your Synthesist Summoner a lesson? Throw him up against A 9th level Witch and a 9th level Wizard, buffed and flying, plus minions/allies. Two Enervations on round one (with his touch AC they'll miss on a 1 or 2 maybe?) An Evil-eye and Dominate Person, cast all in that order by the Witch and the Wizard should have the Synthesist kicking the crap out of the party by the end of round two. DC 20 Will Save with a -9 to his roll (on average) Even if optimized for Will saves (and he won't be as he'll be pumpinh CHA), he might manage an overall +2 to that DC 20 roll. It's over with an 85% chance of failure, on average. They roll lucky on the Enervation damage, it's an auto fail on all but a 20.

Or just have the Witch and Wizard him with Enervation and then the witch Baleful Polymorphs while the Wizard goes to town against the rest of the party on round 2. The Witch can evil-eye + cackle if the enervation damage isn't high enough to ensure an auto-fail.

I want to stay away from teaching lessons. As a GM I uphold that my responsibility to the game is to project a balance for the best game in the world. For those few moments that a balance is achieved, I can then spectate a wonderful display of character, story and setting. I have already spent my $10000 bill on Warhammer 40k and my best general trophies have long been entombed with my armies.

Any character in Pathfinder which is optimized is going to kick ass and take names. This really isn't as bad as it looks. @StreamOfTheSky is right. The real problems with the Summoner class are in its action economy. The Synthesist does not benefit from that action economy imbalance.

An old chess master once said that when you do not know what to move, let your opponent move as his idea is probably wrong. We've replaced our battle mat with open terrain without squares where 1"= 5 feet. I do not believe in the term action economy for it does not properly reflect the teachings of "there are many, there is one, there is none" and "critical mass". The fact that the summoner is independent from his eidolon is not necessarily advantageous as granted it will allow him the potential of combined arms (which is rarely capitalized by the PCs) but rather, it creates a battlefield dynamic of one large piece and one small piece that the GM can focus on. And basically, if you knock out the head you kill the body.

Thanks for your input, I will keep these class combos in mind. At the end of our session the sythetist was hit by a poisoned bullet from a drow noble mounted on her spitting spider, I rolled boxcars and he lost 12 con from his failed saving throw. I misplayed the encounter and forgot to grant the 12 level 2 drow their firearms which in hindsight is a good thing for the charging samurai for he was able to hack through their nadachi weapons precision.

I'm trying to figure out if it's legal. Looking at eidolons, he'd start with a serpentine eidolon with str 12 and dex 16, right? +3 in each due to 9th level is str 15/dex 19. It gets one free ability increase, putting it at str 16. For 10 points, it's up to huge, str 31, dex 15. That's higher than you suggested, but I don't see how without increasing to huge, it can get to the correct str.

Maybe you can list its evolutions?

My son is going to help figure this out with me now.

He has 13 evo points. Starting form: Quadraped. Claws. Mount. Reach. Flight. Grab. Wing buffet. DR. Large. That is 15 points.

The only other thing we can think of is that he is playing an Ursine race (I specifically told him to keep it official Pathfinder heh heh). We can't find any reference on Ursine other than it is a bear, yikes.

 

[joah_from_Alberta]

My son and I make a good team: instant neuter: Pathfinder SRD - Dismissal (Spell)

Cheers,

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

If he has more evo points than normally possible, he could have taken the Extra Evolution feat, possibly more than once (+1 point each time), or he could be a Half-Elf. They can use their favored class bonus to instead gain +1/4 evo point per summoner level.

Also, wow! He's a quadruped and DID NOT get pounce?!

 

[tylermalan]

An old chess master once said that when you do not know what to move, let your opponent move as his idea is probably wrong. We've replaced our battle mat with open terrain without squares where 1"= 5 feet. I do not believe in the term action economy for it does not properly reflect the teachings of "there are many, there is one, there is none" and "critical mass". The fact that the summoner is independent from his eidolon is not necessarily advantageous as granted it will allow him the potential of combined arms (which is rarely capitalized by the PCs) but rather, it creates a battlefield dynamic of one large piece and one small piece that the GM can focus on. And basically, if you knock out the head you kill the body.

I guess I don't really understand your point here. Or, rather, I don't agree? The thing is, whether or not you believe in action economy, it still exists with the RAW of Pathfinder. This action economy is WHY the Summoner is considered overpowered. The Synthesist removes this huge benefit to gain higher numbers on the character sheet, but as Steel_Wind pointed out, the Synthesist is probably worse than an optimized Barbarian. I don't know too many people who would claim that a level 9 Barbarian is overpowered.

It absolutely IS advantageous for the Summoner to be independent of his eidolon, and taking this advantage away from himself by taking the Synthesist essentially means that he's not as much of a headache for you as he could be.

 

[Fooly_Cooly]

Hmm. Now that I look at my dwarven Armiger at lvl 9 the synthesist doesnt seem to bad. Im fairly sure he could be held of whilst a caster made short work of him. Perhaps you could throw some armiger in as body guards for the next big bad boss? They would definitely give the aprty a run for its money.

 

[Steel_Wind]

I don't know too many people who would claim that a level 9 Barbarian is overpowered.

My podcast co-host, @Azmyth is of the view that Barbarians are overpowered at any level. My current Barbarian in our Legacy of Fire campaign has persuaded him of this. Kyrano is a variant based off of Big Grimm, our barbarian Invulnerable Rager we did on the podcast's Character Concept Workshop. It does not help that the damage dealing power of the Barbarian class at low level tends to break most PFS Scenarios, either. Azmyth hates them.

I have also demonstrated repeatedly with this and another fighter character of mine that a simple 1st level CL1 potion of Enlarge Person is, when looking at the bang for the buck, easily the most cost effective magic item in the game. Personally, I think the rules need revising to stop this from being made into a potion which takes instant effect. It's too good in potion form.

The below sheet shows him as he normally is in combat, Raging, enlarged, hasted and buffed, this Gnoll Barbarian shows why the 9th level Synthesist is not all that and a bag of chips. Next feat brings Improved Finishing Cleave to the table, too. This guy regularly does 100+ hit points a round. If he crits, it's north of 170/rnd.

His AC makes him easy to hit, but with DR4 and blur (typical buff), he can take it. Moreover, he dishes out far more than most can throw at him.

Broken? Quite possibly.
___________________________
K'YRANO 'GHU CR 8
Male Gnoll Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) 9
CN Large Humanoid (Gnoll)
Init +2; Senses Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +18
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 18, touch 10, flat-footed 15. . (+7 armor, +2 Dex, -1 size, +1 natural, +2 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 132 (9d12+54)
Fort +15, Ref +9, Will +11
DR 4/—, 8/lethal; Resist fire 2, Extreme Endurance (Fire)
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 70 ft.
Melee Goreshred (Great Axe)+21/+21/+16 (3d6+24/20/x3 Human Bane Great Axe)
. . Dagger +19/+19/+14 (1d6+15/19-20/x2) and
. . Entropan +20/+20/+15 (3d6+23/20/x3) and
. . Unarmed Strike +19/+19/+14 (1d4+15/20/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Longbow, Composite (Str +5) +17/+17/+12 (1d8+6/20/x3)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 17/27, Dex 16/14, Con 18/22, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 9
Base Atk +9; CMB +18; CMD 29
Feats All Gnolls Must Die, Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Great Cleave, Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack -3/+6, Vital Strike
Traits Finding Haleen: Barbarian, Killer
Skills Acrobatics +15, Appraise +1, Bluff +2, Climb +14, Diplomacy +2, Disguise +2, Escape Artist +3, Fly +1, Handle Animal +4, Heal +3, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (Local) +5, Knowledge (Nature) +8, Linguistics +2, Perception +18, Ride +8, Sense Motive +2, Stealth +7, Survival +11, Swim +14
Languages Common, Gnoll
SQ Fast Movement +10 (Ex), Intimidating Glare (Ex), Rage (24 rounds/day) (Ex), Raging Leaper +9 (Ex), Reckless Abandon (+/-3) (Ex), Ring of Jumping, Terrifying Howl (DC 22) (Ex)
Combat Gear +3 Mithral Chain Shirt, Arrows (20), Dagger, Entropan, Goreshred, Masterwork Longbow, Composite (Str +5); Other Gear Adventurer's Sash (6 @ 0 lbs), Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Backpack (empty), Boots of Striding and Springing, Potion of Cure Light Wounds (3), Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds (3), Potion of Enlarge Person (4), Pouch, belt (3 @ 0 lbs), Ring of Jumping, Ring of Protection, +2
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
All Gnolls Must Die You get a +2 bonus on all Will saving throws and +2 to hit and damage gnolls
Cleave If you hit your first target, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus in exchange for -2 AC.
Cleaving Finish Make additional attack if opponent is knocked out
Damage Reduction (4/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Damage Reduction (8/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Damage Resistance, Fire (2) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Fire attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Extreme Endurance: Fire (Ex) At 3rd level, the invulnerable rager is inured to either hot or cold climate effects (choose one) as if using endure elements. In addition, the barbarian gains 1 point of fire or cold resistance for every three levels beyond 3rd. This ability replace
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Intimidating Glare (Ex) While raging, use Intimidate to shake your opponents.
Killer Add weapon's critical modifier to its critical bonus damage.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rage (24 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Raging Leaper +9 (Ex) Acrobatics: Jump +9
Reckless Abandon (+/-3) (Ex) Trade AC penalty for to hit bonus while raging.
Ring of Jumping This ring continually allows the wearer to leap about, providing a +5 competence bonus on all his Jump checks.
Terrifying Howl (DC 22) (Ex) While raging, howl to panic shaken foes.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
--------------------
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Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.

 

[gamerprinter]

It would seem the OP's real problem is an optimizer playing among a group of non-optimizers, not so much a broken class, as most agree the synthesist is actually weaker than many classes.

 

[Fooly_Cooly]

Actually with the group I play with this problem pops up a lot. If you have 1 or 2 optimized and then 2 regular or even sub par chars in a party together its really hard to judge challenges correctly.

 

[Steel_Wind]

It would seem the OP's real problem is an optimizer playing among a group of non-optimizers, not so much a broken class, as most agree the synthesist is actually weaker than many classes.

I would agree.

This is a real problem in many campaigns and it's especially pronounced in Pathfinder Society where the scenarios are written to challenge non-optimized characters. Optimized characters usually blow through std challenges, as Fooly notes.

I don't mind optimized characters provided the twinks and options fit the theme of the character. This is what we try and do on the podcast's CCW -- and even then we often avoid the true "optimal" choice in favor of the one that fits. Still, if you know the rules and understand your build from the word go, it's easy to end up with monstrously powerful characters that play as level +2/3 CR.