[T&B] Ghostform

[Iku Rex]

Ghostform is (IMNSHO) the best 5th level spell available. But it's very hard to adjuctate. A few questions... SRD quotes are from the description of incorporeality. T&B quotes are from the Ghostform spell description.

(My opinions in parentheses.)

"The physical attacks of incorporeal creatures ignore material armor, even magic armor, unless it is made of force or has the ghost touch ability. (SRD)

Ghostform makes you incorporeal. Do attacks (with a Ghost Touch weapon) from a character in Ghostform ignore material armor? (Yes) Do they ignore natural armor? (No)

"Creatures on the Material Plane ignore all your natural armor and natural armor bonuses,[...]" (T&B)

Does this also include Force armor? (No)

"Your touch spells don't work on material targets" (T&B)

Force armor extends onto the ethereal plane, and can "conduct" touch spells. (It is ignored when calculating touch AC.) Can you use touch spells (while in Ghostform) on a target that is using Mage Armor or Bracers of Armor? (?)

"Incorporeal creatures can pass through solid objects at will, although they cannot see when their eyes are within solid matter."

"Incorporeal creatures are inaudible unless they decide to make noise."

"Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air." (SRD)

Does this mean that characters in Ghostform can cast spells with Verbal components without getting heard on the Material Plane? (?) What if the character is underwater or inside a solid object? (?)

 

[Iku Rex]

*Bump*

 

[Darklone]

I will write some opinions earned by playing several incorporeal monsters though I cannot quote the right passages right now...

"The physical attacks of incorporeal creatures ignore material armor, even magic armor, unless it is made of force or has the ghost touch ability. (SRD)

Ghostform makes you incorporeal. Do attacks (with a Ghost Touch weapon) from a character in Ghostform ignore material armor? (Yes) Do they ignore natural armor? (No)

"Creatures on the Material Plane ignore all your natural armor and natural armor bonuses,[...]" (T&B)

Does this also include Force armor? (No)

"Your touch spells don't work on material targets" (T&B)

Force armor extends onto the ethereal plane, and can "conduct" touch spells. (It is ignored when calculating touch AC.) Can you use touch spells (while in Ghostform) on a target that is using Mage Armor or Bracers of Armor? (?)

"Incorporeal creatures can pass through solid objects at will, although they cannot see when their eyes are within solid matter."

"Incorporeal creatures are inaudible unless they decide to make noise."

"Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air." (SRD)

Does this mean that characters in Ghostform can cast spells with Verbal components without getting heard on the Material Plane? (?) What if the character is underwater or inside a solid object? (?)

Character underwater: Well for him it's not like he's underwater. Hell, he can walk through walls. Only his vision is a bit dimmed.

Sounds: He cannot be heard. But without manifesting he cannot cast spells that affect anything on the material plane.

As for hitting someone who wears bracers ... No. You may be able to hit the force of the armour but the effect will take place on the Ethereal plane and not on the material plane, thus no effect there.

Force armours DO help against attacks from incorporeal monsters. Magical armour with enhancement bonuses does not help, the spell Mage Armour does. (another reason why they called it that way now instead of armour or magic armour)

 

[bleedthefreak]

Natural armor and magic armor

I don't think natural armor helps you either (the original poster seems to think it will, unless I read it wrong).

I was also under the (possible mistaken) impression that magic armor doesn't help you (as stated above) but the "plus's" on the armor will, such that a +2 chain shirt will provide +2 armor rather then +6 against an incorporeal creature. Is that incorrect?

 

[Iku Rex]

Re: Re: [T&B] Ghostform

Sounds: He cannot be heard. But without manifesting he cannot cast spells that affect anything on the material plane.

The question is if the spells have to be "spoken into" the Material Plane. If they don't (because the spell is cast on the Ethereal plane), Ghostform comes with Silent Spell added to all your spells for no extra cost. (Wow.) If they do, what happens when the character is underwater or inside a solid object?

As for hitting someone who wears bracers ... No. You may be able to hit the force of the armor but the effect will take place on the Ethereal plane and not on the material plane, thus no effect there.

I guess this a reasonable answer. The reason I asked is that most spells affect the Material Plane normally and I get the impression that touch spells are excluded because a creature in Ghostform can't touch anything. (But they could touch force armor.)

 

[Iku Rex]

Re: Natural armor and magic armor

I was also under the (possible mistaken) impression that magic armor doesn't help you (as stated above) but the "plus's" on the armor will, such that a +2 chain shirt will provide +2 armor rather then +6 against an incorporeal creature. Is that incorrect?

Yes. Armor bonuses are armor bonuses. p)

 

[bleedthefreak]

Re: Re: Natural armor and magic armor

Yes. Armor bonuses are armor bonuses. p)

Er, except that magical armor has an armor bonus and an "enchantment bonus", which I was under the impression did in fact aid you when being struck by an incorporeal creature*?

*The enchantment bonus, I mean.

 

[Iku Rex]

Re: Re: Re: Natural armor and magic armor

Er, except that magical armor has an armor bonus and an "enchantment bonus" which I was under the impression did in fact aid you when being struck by an incorporeal creature?

Armor only gives you one bonus - an armor bonus. It is possible to improve this bonus with magic, by adding an enchantment bonus to armor.

 

[bleedthefreak]

Um...

That is what I am talking about, if a suite of say +2 chainshirt gives you a +4 armor bonus and +2 enchantment bonus, wouldn't the +2 enchantment bonus aid you?

All magical armor is like this by default, with the enchantment bonus, just like weapons.

 

[Iku Rex]

Re: Um...

That is what I am talking about, if a suite of say +2 chainshirt gives you a +4 armor bonus and +2 enchantment bonus, wouldn't the +2 enchantment bonus aid you?

No.

Again: The armor above does not give you a +2 enhancement bonus. It gives you a +6 armor bonus. Look at the "Bonuses from Magic Items" table ( http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdmagicitems.html )

An "Enhancement" bonus improves "Armor’s bonus".

I assure you: This is how it works. If you find anything to indicate the contrary I will be very surprised.