D&D 5E Tabaxi claw attack

[Clancey]

Since the Tabaxi claw has its own rule adding strength bonus, can one use it as an off-hand attack with the bonus when wielding a light weapon? How about the same with a finess weapon, since it is a natural weapon?

Thoughts?

 

[Lanliss]

If I am not mistaken, you can make an offhand attack anytime you want with your fist, it is just such a poor use that it never really happens. I might be wrong, though I don't see it destroying balance, as it does not meet the requirements for most abuse-able abilities like a Sneak attack (requires finesse weapon), or spells (most require weapon attacks).

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Now that I look at them, the rules for the tabaxi's claws are written very confusingly, since they refer to them as "natural weapons" but then proceed to describe them as an improvement to your "unarmed strike", and notwithstanding what common sense would indicate (and the way it worked in previous editions), these are not the same thing. However, the overall intent of the ability seems to be that it replaces your normal unarmed strike damage with 1d4 + Str slashing damage. I would use the standard unarmed strike rules on PHB p. 195 and take the term "natural weapon" as not meaning a natural weapon in the technical sense. Which would mean the answer to both your questions is "no".

 

[TheCosmicKid]

If I am not mistaken, you can make an offhand attack anytime you want with your fist, it is just such a poor use that it never really happens. I might be wrong, though I don't see it destroying balance, as it does not meet the requirements for most abuse-able abilities like a Sneak attack (requires finesse weapon), or spells (most require weapon attacks).

RAW, you can't. You need to be wielding a light weapon in your off-hand, and an unarmed strike expressly does not count as a weapon.

If you did allow it, it wouldn't actually be a terrible move. The potential for 1 + Str extra damage can be attractive in some circumstances. It's almost certainly better than two-handing a versatile weapon, for instance.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Since the Tabaxi claw has its own rule adding strength bonus, can one use it as an off-hand attack with the bonus when wielding a light weapon? How about the same with a finess weapon, since it is a natural weapon?

Thoughts?

Technically no, since the two-weapon fighting rules require you to use a melee weapon, and your claws aren't actually weapons in that sense.

The claws are not finesse weapons. If they were, they would specifically say so.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I agree with the other posters who've said that it is not permitted by RAW.

That said, I would allow a player who wanted to make an off-hand attack with their unarmed strike to do so, however it would follow the normal rules for dual wielding. In other words, for a typical character without the two-weapon fighting style the attack would deal 1 point of damage. A tabaxi without the two-weapon fighting style would deal 1d4 points of damage.

 

[Redthistle]

[MENTION=6683613]TheCosmicKid[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6802951]Cap'n Kobold[/MENTION] cover most of the RAW, which generally do not allow you to use the tabaxi's claw attack along with your weapon attack.

The exception that would allow you to use the claw attack is your reaction, which can be used either on your own turn or on someone else's (PHB, page 190).

 

[Clancey]

Thanks for everyone's input!

I would like to know what constitutes a finesse weapon. What characteristic makes a dagger and a rapier finesse?

Also, I respect the opinion that the RAW are confusing on the "natural weapon" designation in Volo's, but it could be argued that the intention that the claw attack *is* to be considered a weapon for that creature as an ability, could it not?

 

[psychophipps]

I would like to know what constitutes a finesse weapon. What characteristic makes a dagger and a rapier finesse?

Also, I respect the opinion that the RAW are confusing on the "natural weapon" designation in Volo's, but it could be argued that the intention that the claw attack *is* to be considered a weapon for that creature as an ability, could it not?

1) Because the devs say they are. Yes, that's basically the gist of it.

2) Just having a better natural weapon in a pinch is pretty handy. Automatically linking it to the optimized stat of the race and to SA is really not necessary in terms of play balance. That said, it is *your* game so run it how your group wants to play it.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Thanks for everyone's input!

I would like to know what constitutes a finesse weapon. What characteristic makes a dagger and a rapier finesse?

Also, I respect the opinion that the RAW are confusing on the "natural weapon" designation in Volo's, but it could be argued that the intention that the claw attack *is* to be considered a weapon for that creature as an ability, could it not?

A weapon is a finesse weapon if it has the finesse property listed for it in the weapon table on PHB pg 149.

IMO, it would be a very weak argument. It clearly states that it is an unarmed strike. An unarmed strike is not a weapon. I would say that the use of the term natural weapon is simply a case of natural language.

 

[Lanliss]

Thanks for everyone's input!

I would like to know what constitutes a finesse weapon. What characteristic makes a dagger and a rapier finesse?

Also, I respect the opinion that the RAW are confusing on the "natural weapon" designation in Volo's, but it could be argued that the intention that the claw attack *is* to be considered a weapon for that creature as an ability, could it not?

Weapons that have been known historically(Pop-culture historically, not real historically) as weapons that use skill rather than power. Anything that is seen as a weapon for weak people to use against the strong, usually after the strong one insults their "Puny toothpick".

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Thanks for everyone's input!

I would like to know what constitutes a finesse weapon. What characteristic makes a dagger and a rapier finesse?

They both have "Finesse" in their entries in the weapons table.

In terms of how finesse translates to the actual weapon . . . that is tricky. By the rules a finesse weapon is one in which you can apply your grace and balance rather than athleticism and power. Actually trying to get your head around how that might work in real life, like many of the abstractions in D&D, leads only to madness.
I generally view it as a rules construct that enables players to play characters similar to those in popular media, rather than only those practical in real life. Books, cartoons, films etc all inspire character ideas that people would like to emulate.
If anything in the ruleset becomes too far off for me to envision, then that is what houserules are for. (For example I removed the sneak attack finesse requirement.)

Also, I respect the opinion that the RAW are confusing on the "natural weapon" designation in Volo's, but it could be argued that the intention that the claw attack *is* to be considered a weapon for that creature as an ability, could it not?

Not really by the rules as they've been set out I'm afraid.
I'd suggest talking it out with your DM though. Asking for a houseruling on those lines is probably a better approach than trying to argue a dodgy interpretation of the rules.

 

[fent]

Joined a long running campaign this Saturday that some friends were running (was already in another campaign with them, they just had an opening in this one). Anyway, I rolled a Tabaxi ranger. Character was introduced via jail cells in the bottom of a pirate ship. Ultimately, after the rogue broke us out, we dashed into the sleeping quarters to slay the sleeping pirates. After speaking with the DM, he ruled that each one of my hands was a 1d4+Str slashing "weapon", using the attack action for one hand and bonus action for the other hand.

What I'm getting at is, just talk it out with your DM. Ultimately it is their say, but I'm sure he/she would be more than willing to work with you.

 

[Clancey]

Not really by the rules as they've been set out I'm afraid.
I'd suggest talking it out with your DM though. Asking for a houseruling on those lines is probably a better approach than trying to argue a ***dodgy*** interpretation of the rules.

Ah, I am really pining away for England these days! I'll take it - Brexit and all...

My reason for trying to get the Claw as an off-hand weapon is more for flavor than a game benefit. My Tabaxi Rogue is actually better off using a dagger than using a strength-based weapon, but I just pictured it in my head as being bad-assed. Short sword and Scimitar, here I come.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

My reason for trying to get the Claw as an off-hand weapon is more for flavor than a game benefit. My Tabaxi Rogue is actually better off using a dagger than using a strength-based weapon, but I just pictured it in my head as being bad-assed. Short sword and Scimitar, here I come.

All the more reason to talk to your DM: they might agree to let it count as a finesse weapon as well.

 

[CydKnight]

I would allow it if pressed but perhaps without the added strength bonus.