Tac Lord, Inspiring Word, and Battle Inspiration...

[Trainz]

All right, here goes:

I play a 16th level taclord. With my PP, now that I'm 16 when I do inspiring word on an ally (and I can use Inspiring Word 4 times per encounter), he can spend a healing surge, make a save at +2, have a +7 movement until the end of my next turn, and have a +7 on all his attacks until the end of my next turn.

NOW... does he HAVE to spend a healing surge to get all those side benefits? Can I do inspiring word even if he's at full hit points and still give him all those side benefits?

 

[mneme]

It would really help if you gave us class feature, etc, so we could look up wording. Hard to give an answer without being able to see the wording, you know.

Anyways, you're a Battle Captain:

When you use your inspiring word power, allies you heal gain a +1 power bonus to attack rolls and a +1 power bonus to speed until the end of your next turn. If you selected the Tactical Presence class feature, the ally gains bonuses equal to your Intelligence modifier instead.

The key phrase is "allies you heal" So if you don't heal them (ie, they choose not to spend a surge) they don't get the benefit.

 

[Trainz]

This is RAW, but is it RAI?

For example the Heroic Level Saving Inspiration feat which can be found on page 139 of the Martial Power book and stipulates "When you use inspiring word, you can forgo any extra dice of healing granted by the power to instead grant the target a saving throw" doesn't say "allies you heal", and doesn't say either "the target doesn't get the saving throw if he didn't spend a healing surge".

I'd like to know if a sage advice or WotC ruling has been made on the subject.

 

[Piratecat]

I see your quandry.

This seems like RAI to me, although that's a personal opinion. The PC gives up some of his internal stamina in order to be completely heroic for a round. I'd make him give up the surge.

 

[Trainz]

I see your quandry.

This seems like RAI to me, although that's a personal opinion. The PC gives up some of his internal stamina in order to be completely heroic for a round. I'd make him give up the surge.

Even if he was at full hp's? That sounds reasonable. I wonder what WotC's take is on this though.

FYI, I edited my post while you posted.

 

[Obryn]

I'd make him spend a surge, but allow it even if you technically don't heal any damage.

I would not allow you to use the power without him spending a healing surge, full HPs or no.

-O

 

[Trainz]

I'd make him spend a surge, but allow it even if you technically don't heal any damage.

I would not allow you to use the power without him spending a healing surge, full HPs or no.

-O

I wouldn't. I know I'm extremely and shamelessly subjective in saying this, but I wouldn't.

The way 4th ed is set-up, you can barely do a few fights before having to spend an extended rest in order to regain your curing abilities (3rd ed had a nice work around for this in the way of wands of cure light wounds). This new taclord feature allowed us to:

1- finish fights faster
2- waste less healing surges per fight

... thus getting back a bit of that dungeon delving momentum previous editions had.

NOW... these are all our personal opinions, but I'd really want to know what the official ruling is, because I know for a fact my DM will nerf it if the official ruling says so...

 

[boar]

This is RAW, but is it RAI?

For example the Heroic Level Saving Inspiration feat which can be found on page 139 of the Martial Power book and stipulates "When you use inspiring word, you can forgo any extra dice of healing granted by the power to instead grant the target a saving throw" doesn't say "allies you heal", and doesn't say either "the target doesn't get the saving throw if he didn't spend a healing surge".

I can see your concern, but that feat doesn't actually pose a quandary. The feat specifically states that in order to grant a saving throw, you need to forgo the extra healing dice. You only get the extra healing dice if the target spends a surge. And in order to forgo something, you need to have it. Hence, no surge, no extra dice, no saving throw.

I concede that, RAI, if you're willing to give up an encounter heal (a fairly precious thing!) in order to hand out some bonuses, then that seems pretty reasonable. But as written, the path feature and the feat are 100% consistent: no surge, no bonus.

 

[Aulirophile]

He needs to spend a surge. That is both RAW and RAI.

 

[blargney the second]

In this case, I'd say no bonuses without using a surge.

Contrast with the bard's majestic word: Effect: The target can spend a healing surge and regain additional hit points equal to your Charisma modifier. You also slide the target 1 square.

The slide effect appears to be uncoupled from using a surge, so the target can choose to forgo the healing and just accept the slide.

 

[BobTheNob]

He needs to spend a surge. That is both RAW and RAI.

Seconded. I have read the posts here (including the fore arguments) and I just cant see any ambiguity in this. I cant see intention outside raw. The only stated case was, to me, too variant from the original point.

To OP, you can seek out WOTC's take on this, but the answer will be "as RAW" (lets faces it, thats there answer to EVERYTHING).

The OP has been arguing against RAW, and if your DM allows it, you are free to houserule. But really, RAW is there, and it aint broken.

 

[DracoSuave]

As a DM, I'd allow it, while saying... 'Are you sure you want to use up your healing word -now- so you can give these bonuses?'

There's very few instances where you want to give up a healing word power just for the side benefits.

 

[Trainz]

As a DM, I'd allow it, while saying... 'Are you sure you want to use up your healing word -now- so you can give these bonuses?'

There's very few instances where you want to give up a healing word power just for the side benefits.

We also have a cleric, and I can do *4* inspiring words per fight, so pretty much all the time in our case.

I will bring this matter to my DM and tell him what the general consensus is.

 

[DracoSuave]

We also have a cleric, and I can do *4* inspiring words per fight, so pretty much all the time in our case.

I will bring this matter to my DM and tell him what the general consensus is.

Yeah, but you're in one of two situations: You don't need the healing surge, in which case, you don't really need the buffs, or you do need the buffs, in which case, you'll probably use the healing surge.

Warlords don't have any trouble buffing party members without spending their word.

 

[Amaroq]

Draco, it sounds like the issue could be restated as:

"Given the +7 bonuses to both Speed and Attack, when I win initiative, sometimes it feels like my best first-round Minor Action is to drop those +7's on either a defender or a striker who hasn't gone or been attacked yet: the increased mobility lets them get into position (especially if we started at longer than 6 squares away from the enemy), and break out an Encounter or Daily power with a near guarantee that it will hit.

Since the party has so much healing available, it hardly matters to us if we're one Healing Word short, especially if it buys us a big tactical advantage."

I'd rule much as the consensus has: yes, you can target a character who has not taken any damage. The character targeted has a choice: spend the surge and gain the bonuses, or not spend the surge and let you waste your Inspiring Word.