Tactical Boardgame?

[Charwoman Gene]

I finally figured out what is bothering me.

The "I played 4E at D&D XP and it is just a Tactical Boardgame" meme. It's spreading hard, especially among people who were anti-4e but "keeping an open mind". It seems to have traction amongst D20 publishers. (Chris Pramas; Henry Lopez from Living Arcanis)

Let's see, pregenerated characters, with no choice in creation, presented in a delve-format, yeah THAT IS A TACTICAL BOARDGAME, just like any Combat focused Pregen event. 3E Living Greyhawk was like that. (YMMV, Keoland)

It doesn't surprise me that a game which shows only the tactical boardgame side of D&D gives people the impression 4e is a tactical boardgame.

If it wasn't presented as a tactical boardgame, we'd be hearing...
"Why did you waste paper and time on rolepklaying note for these pregens? We just want to test the rules."
"The 4e Sessions were a waste of time, not enough tactical encounters, too many RP encounter we could do in any edition."

This is just what I see.

 

[Walking Dad]

I finally figured out what is bothering me.

The "I played 4E at D&D XP and it is just a Tactical Boardgame" meme. It's spreading hard, especially among people who were anti-4e but "keeping an open mind". It seems to have traction amongst D20 publishers. (Chris Pramas; Henry Lopez from Living Arcanis)

Let's see, pregenerated characters, with no choice in creation, presented in a delve-format, yeah THAT IS A TACTICAL BOARDGAME, just like any Combat focused Pregen event. 3E Living Greyhawk was like that. (YMMV, Keoland)

It doesn't surprise me that a game which shows only the tactical boardgame side of D&D gives people the impression 4e is a tactical boardgame.

If it wasn't presented as a tactical boardgame, we'd be hearing...
"Why did you waste paper and time on rolepklaying note for these pregens? We just want to test the rules."
"The 4e Sessions were a waste of time, not enough tactical encounters, too many RP encounter we could do in any edition."

This is just what I see.

My signature says it all. I think of it as a board game because you need a board to play it (at least the combats). This started in 3.0 and was one of the reasons people flock around true20.

Note I'm not negative about 4e! It is just something I noticed. Wargame(board) -> RPG (board)

 

[Darkwolf71]

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that you're upset because some people simply may not like the game.

I mean, prior to D&DExp, people who questioned 4e were hit with, 'You haven't played it yet, how can you critisize?'

Now, they've played it and are still not thrilled with it. I mean we're not talking about 4e haters here or they wouldn't have spent the time and money to go to the show in the first place. These are people who wanted to give it a chance. So, just maybe, they have an honest concern about the game. That doesn't mean it sucks, it means they didn't like the way it runs.

I'm also willing to bet that most of them have played in pregen-con games before, so I'm not sure that your delve-format argument works.

 

[Fifth Element]

My signature says it all. I think of it as a board game because you need a board to play it (at least the combats). This started in 3.0 and was one of the reasons people flock around true20.

Note I'm not negative about 4e! It is just something I noticed. Wargame(board) -> RPG (board)

I think you missed OP's point. The point is, of course it looks like a tactical boardgame now. They've only shown us the tactical boardgame bits. We're passing judgment on something we have not seen the entirety of.

 

[Frostmarrow]

To me 4E seems like exactly what I've been wishing for. A snug tactical wargame that leaves the role-playing out of it. I'm holding my thumbs the new social interaction system is optional and not built-in/balanced-about the tactical game. I'll role-play Monopoly any day. And it actually works better than the 3E mess of diplomacy checks and tiers of unfriendliness.

Eeee look at me I'm a shoe!

 

[MaelStorm]

I pointed about the exact thing in another tread.

 

[Walking Dad]

I think you missed OP's point. The point is, of course it looks like a tactical boardgame now. They've only shown us the tactical boardgame bits. We're passing judgment on something we have not seen the entirety of.

You missed my points. I like the tactical board game combat. But it is tactical board game combat. And I will play it on a (virtual?) board. I will not play the non-combat encounters in another room and run back for the combat. I will be playing sitting in front of a board = board game.

What is so bad about to say, that the combat (a very big piece of D&D) is a tactical board game?

 

[Charwoman Gene]

I pointed about the exact thing in another tread.

Which thread? Just curious to see your take.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

What is so bad about to say, that the combat (a very big piece of D&D) is a tactical board game?

You are missing loads of issues. Board games don't have stories, plots etc. The "Gamer Elite" determine that RPG's are high art and boardgames are common rabble. These aren't my issues.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I finally figured out what is bothering me.

The "I played 4E at D&D XP and it is just a Tactical Boardgame" meme. It's spreading hard, especially among people who were anti-4e but "keeping an open mind". It seems to have traction amongst D20 publishers. (Chris Pramas; Henry Lopez from Living Arcanis)

Let's see, pregenerated characters, with no choice in creation, presented in a delve-format, yeah THAT IS A TACTICAL BOARDGAME, just like any Combat focused Pregen event. 3E Living Greyhawk was like that. (YMMV, Keoland)

It doesn't surprise me that a game which shows only the tactical boardgame side of D&D gives people the impression 4e is a tactical boardgame.

If it wasn't presented as a tactical boardgame, we'd be hearing...
"Why did you waste paper and time on rolepklaying note for these pregens? We just want to test the rules."
"The 4e Sessions were a waste of time, not enough tactical encounters, too many RP encounter we could do in any edition."

This is just what I see.

I completely agree - this was something I was considering saying myself.

However, I don't object in any way to people deciding they don't like what they've played - I just think everyone needs to remember that we still haven't seen the full game nor had experience of how the full game works.

The skills system sounds extremely interesting, as does Paragon Paths and epic destinies. Sounds like lots of room for excellent RP, player creativity and flexibility. Personally, I'm still very keen to see the full rules and delve into the guts of it all!