Tactical D&D, macro to micro. How do you handle it?

[Hairfoot]

I go in for quite a wargame-y style of D&D. I like the tactics and strategy of overland manoeuvres and miniatures combat. Trouble is, combat and strategy always seem to be abstract until the PCs close to within a couple of hundred feet of their objective. Too often it seems like it's all set up around a set piece - usually a building I have a decent model or floorplan for.

Because a lot of action gets glossed over on the way to the BBEG, I'm finding that characters aren't getting a chance to shine, because their specialities are nerfed by PCs with other talents. Mostly I'm finding that clanking fighters cancel any sort of subtlety.

Example: party of 3rd level PCs is sent to retrieve a hostage from hobgoblin raiders, who have fortified an abandoned mill 8 miles distant from the PC base camp.

The challenges I'd like to throw at the players are:
1. negotiating 8 miles of wilderness with the chance of random encounters or crossing paths with hobgoblin scouts.

2. Getting the minis on the table once the PCs are within a mile of the mill, and having them negotiate the intervening terrain, and avoid or neutralise traps and sentries.

3. Figuring out a way in, and letting the casters and warriors handle an assault or assist with an infiltration.

Problems are:
(1) Not so hard. Encounter rolls and some placement/movement of hob scouts on the overland map. Some survival/geography rolls to improve the approach.

(2) Biggest challenge for me. This is where I'd like to see the rangers/scouts/barbarians using their abilities to discreetly blaze a trail without the casters and tanks drawing attention or, if it goes awry, having a running skirmish over a distance (when was the last time a range increment was relevant?).

(3) This is what it's been leading up to, but now it's all about raw damage output. Combat spells are at a premium, and the rogues become flankers or bystanders. Because it's been abstract until the enemies are pouring in, there's little incentive to be cunning with illusions or stealth buffs along the way.

The major difficulty I'm experiencing is laying out maps for the approach. I haven't found any terrain tiles which can handle that sort of distance, and I can't figure out how to create random terrain effectively.

Actually, now that I come to the end of the post, it's really a question about mapping.

Still, how do you handle it?

 

[Tonguez]

Use sub-objectives and 'conditions'

Example: party of 3rd level PCs is sent to retrieve a hostage from hobgoblin raiders, who have fortified an abandoned mill 8 miles distant from the PC base camp.

Condition: Stealth is at a premium the mill is well guarded and if the Hobgoblins fear attack they will kill the hostage. If the hostage dies the whole mission is a failure

- the PCs are now forced to rely on stealth (or magic)

Sub-goal 1: There is a secret access way that starts 3 miles southeast of the mill and emerges under the mill wheel, we have a guide who can take you to the entrance. However the hobs do have scouts guarding their perimeter.

- so the first part of the mission is to get to the entranceway rather than to the mill. The access way also becomes a mini-dungeon too - use that to spice up the overland travel before getting to the main objective

 

[genshou]

First thing you have to do is decide what the lay of the land is. Where does the land rise or dip? Where is the vegetation? You can let random die rolls cover this, too (maximum spotting distance) if you want, and just decide what areas are classified as different types of terrain (perhaps on the northeast side of the mill, it's open plains, but approaching from the southeast there is light forest most of the way). Then, decide where the scouts will be stationed, and how they communicate warnings to the others. Remember that Listen and Spot checks suffer a -1 penalty for every 10 feet of distance away from the source of sound. Smart Fighters will let the Rangers, Rogues, and Scouts do what they are good at and locate the enemies first. Then, ranged weapons can take care of the rest.

I think every Fighter who has time to prepare for this kind of adventure should invest in light armour. Sure, their AC will be lower. But they'll be able to sneak in a lot easier against foes with Listen/Spot modifiers that aren't remarkably high.

Ultimately, though, espionage work and clanking warriors just don't mix well.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I have to say that DnD is a game of close combat. Very rarely do you have encounters/skirmishes outside of a longbow's first range increment. When you do, then the Longbowman really shines and all the other characters get bored

{Had a game where the DM was silly enough to let us ambush from 450 feet away on an open plain. The three archers took out all 7 of the enemy before they got to melee range or out of longbow range }

One thing that can help you is to expand the grid to long range encounters. Turning the 5' square into a 50' square lets you manuever tactically {humanoids move 1 square, horses move 2, ranged attacks are possible}
Once the group closes to within 100', simply expand the grid out by a factor of ten, changing the map to one with more detail and moving the approaching group back...kindof a 'zoom in' effect.

Mapping the wilderness is always interesting. Using 50' grids you really only need to have major terrain types and major objects identified. One major issue you will end up with is LOS issues. You could set a percentage chance for obstruction based on the terrain type, fx Light Forest could have a 20% chance of blocking LOS per square, Heavy forest could have a 40% chance... etc.

Another thing to do is approach the wilderness/outskirt area as a dungeon..and flesh it out as such. The only difference is that the hallways are invisible...
In the above scenario you could have a string of 'rooms', each containing a challenge, be it a trap, negotiating terrain, or skirting/killing a patrol. You would only need close in maps for each 'room', and for the most part they could be re-usable. Simply turn the map 90 degrees for the next room
Grab a box of Squad Leader, they have interconnecting maps that can be rotated and layed end to end. {I am sure there is a non-hex solution similar to this somewhere.. can anyone provide a link?}

While you are grabbing, get a copy of Wildscape. It details various terrain type and challenges in both macro and mico scale.

Regarding close in combat, one thing I have found that helps the ranger/rogue out a bit is one of my HR class abilities. Rangers gain the ability at 1st level to ignore one step of difficult terrain that is due to vegitation. Rogues gain the ability at 1st level to ignore one step of difficult terrain due to unsure footing {scree, uneven floor, etc}.
{both abilities are limited to light or no armor and light encumbrance}
This makes them more mobile..and allows for combat options like a Charge..in situations where the tanks are limited in movement.


Running a wilderness adventure appears to be much harder than a 'normal' dungeon, mainly because of the apparent freedom of the PC's. In reality it takes just as much preparation and a bit more on-the-fly adjustment. Doing it right gives the Rangers a chance to really shine.
A note however, you mentioned your game is more of a wargame-y style... wilderness adventures tend to be more skill-based style. The two styles are not incompatable, but if your group is used to the charge in and get flooded by bad guys...they may not appreciate the sudden need to roll a Survival check or learning that a simple log between them and the archer cost 5' of movement to cross...

Tonguez mentioned something that I would like to add onto. The PC's will rely on stealth more if they know that crashing the front gate will bring more than they can handle. Having a large war-party within range of the mill, perhaps in a base camp a couple of 100 feet to the side, would get the party to go the stealth route. If they think the bad guys will be CR-equivilent, then there is no reason to be stealthy. Not having a custom made bolt hole would encourage the group to cooperate and come up with a plan... which is where the on-the-fly part comes in. Personally I would assualt the mill by floating down the river instead of trying to walk in

 

[Hairfoot]

Thanks for the feedback.

It's difficult. I want to make the game as open as I can - supporting lots of possibilities, but not forcing the players down a particular path.

The idea of scaling terrain is promising. I'll have to experiment.

 

[Toras]

Though not a huge fan of mini's (they don't really work well when we are dealing with free ranging three space aka combat in a transitive plan, nor if we can pass freely through stone and earth). I can apperciate the desire to have tactical combats.

My suggestion for making the Rogue useful is to have him in a secondary scouting role, and include traps on the approach. (Pungi Pits, Trip Lines, Swinging Logs, and Alarms). This should also increase the difficulty. Use these to suppliment your sentries. Add patrols along the roads, and create a fortified war camp (wooden but well built).

Have the hobgoblin's out number the party drastically, and given them a military esque outlook. Include archer groups, formations, and have them work in large groups. Mounted Calvary and armed footmen are not out of the question as well. If you want to set this up, have a survivor tell them about the horde.

 

[genshou]

I just got Heroes of Battle from the FLGS and it suggests having each square on the grid represent 200 feet square, then making standard maps for the close-up encounters that are going to occur. There's more info than that, of course, but you'll have to check the book out for yourself.

 

[Hussar]

I gotta admit, I was wondering about the 1 mile thing. That's a very long range to start worrying terribly much about stealth. Even on a clear day, at 1 mile, you don't see too much. But, that's a quibble.

I think the idea of starting at a much larger scale and simply use a single mini for the party (or two if they are smart and scoot their rogue about 300 feet ahead of them) and then have 1 inch=5 feet scale maps for actual encounters. Geomorph style maps work for those. You don't really need a huge amount of features, depending on the terrain of course. Since the party has to be sneaky sneaky, they aren't going to start engaging at 300 feet so you probably don't have to worry about overly large combat maps.

Since you are using hobgobs, it makes perfect sense for the place to be well defended, with snare traps and warning boobies all over the place. This lets both the ranger and the rogue shine. Also, it might be an idea to have tracks and whatnot around as well to give the ranger an extra little benny.

Just as a question, is there any particular reason they are attacking in the daytime? Night would make this a whole lot simpler.

 

[Graf]

Hmm.

Generally, as a player, I think that the lack of granularity to the world is a deterent to getting complex. Depending on the DM they may want to do a “you run through the wilderness”, spend 10 minutes on planning and rolling, 30 minutes on a short skirmish and cleanup, and then “So you approach your target” type stuff.

Having an area map, with different locations that could help or hinder the party, might be useful.

Example:
There is a stream, the water of which helps the just. The problem is that this effect only lasts for 3 hours (so if the group gets involved in a fight they lose time) or else it provides temporary hit points or gives +4 vs AC for the first 4 rounds of combat (i.e. any fight is going to make the bonus go away).
The party will want the effects during the first danagerous main-fight, which encourages stealth (or else having a small, fast moving group of barbarians and rogues bring the water to the groups basecamp)

OR
There is a group of savage and bestial gnolls to the west of the target location.
They do not molest the mine, itself. The hobgoblins are aware of the existence of the gnolls and will almost certainly use that to their advantage by only lightly patrolling the area (especially in the evenings when the gnolls are active).
A cunning group could slip through the gnolls area during the daytime, wait at the border until its nighttime and then have an undisrupted access to the target area.
Making this group something tough (savage gnolls, hill giants, or a small dragon) makes it clear to the group that this is a “to be by-passed” area.

Or if you want to include roleplaying perhaps the gnolls can be reasoned with (betray your allies and let us through, etc etc).

I would definitely stress the idea that there are too many hobgoblins to fight. So the group has to get in, get the hostages, and then get out (possibly retreat to a defensible area?). That way you could have an overland travel combat. The slower characters will need to hustle the whole time just to keep up with the hostages, but faster characters can move in and out of combat. Trailblaze ahead (and so forth).