Take 20

[gnfnrf]

No, they're not - 62.3%.

Serves me right for trying to do 1-1/e in my head when I only got 4 hours of sleep the night before.

--
gnfnrf

 

[CRGreathouse]

Serves me right for trying to do 1-1/e in my head when I only got 4 hours of sleep the night before.

Sorry, but I just couldn't let it pass. I guess I look like a jerk now. ()

 

[CRGreathouse]

Why would you want to take 20 on a craft check anyway?

To craft an item you need to put forward 1/3 of its market value.

Say you could take 20... It would cost you 20 time the raw material cost.

You would then end up with an item that has a production value that is 20/3 of its market value! That is completely ridiculous.

Let me present you Dhumbarsse, the master weaponsmith that takes 20 on his craft skill check! His masterwork longswords cost him 2100 GP to produce but he is willing to sell them for only 3,000 GP. That is quite a bargain my friend!

First of all, this isn't accurate - you simply can't take 20, since there's a penalty for failure. However, even if there was, you wouldn't have to pay for the amterials over and over; you'd just have to replace 1/2 of the raw materials a certain number of times.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

First of all, this isn't accurate - you simply can't take 20, since there's a penalty for failure. However, even if there was, you wouldn't have to pay for the amterials over and over; you'd just have to replace 1/2 of the raw materials a certain number of times.

I know you can't take 20 on a craft check. That's why I wrote could.

And consider this: taking 20 (if it could be done) would mean that a craftman with a skill of +10 would spend 20 week producing 30SP multiplied by the DC of the item he is trying to produce.

At that rate it'll take him nearly 140 weeks to produce a single masterwork longsword! He better find a sucker that will buy it at least 3,000 GP or he's going bankrupt.

 

[CRGreathouse]

And consider this: taking 20 (if it could be done) would mean that a craftman with a skill of +10 would spend 20 week producing 30SP multiplied by the DC of the item he is trying to produce.

At that rate it'll take him nearly 140 weeks to produce a single masterwork longsword! He better find a sucker that will buy it at least 3,000 GP or he's going bankrupt.

With a +10, the craftsman could be assumed to miss the DC on the mw component by 5 or more 5 times per Take 20, each time ruining 1/2 of the raw materials (1/6 of the purchase price). After 1 such attempt on a mw longsword, he'd have spent 250 gp; by the time he finishes both parts, he'll have spent around 2,500 gp.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

; by the time he finishes both parts, he'll have spent around 2,500 gp.

Here you go. No matter how you look at it, taking 20 on a craft check would be silly. It would take an eternity to complete your item and it would cost a fortune.

That was the only point I've been trying to make!

 

[CRGreathouse]

Here you go. No matter how you look at it, taking 20 on a craft check would be silly. It would take an eternity to complete your item and it would cost a fortune.

That was the only point I've been trying to make!

Eh, sorry for being so picky. I certainly agree with your conclusion!

 

[Eothe_Master]

Got it. A follow-up: could you "take 10" on a Craft check?

--EM

 

[Hypersmurf]

Got it. A follow-up: could you "take 10" on a Craft check?

I would go further than that, and say that that's exactly what most professional craftsmen would do every day.

Nobody's going to set themselves up as a master craftsman if they need to roll an 18 every day to get it right. They'll find what they can turn out consistently, and that's what they'll advertise, make, and sell every day.

If the best the blacksmith can manage taking 10 is a horseshoe that works, he'll make horseshoes. If he can take 10 and turn out masterwork exotic weapons, he'd be a fool to make anything less, while there's a market... because he can do it better, cheaper, and more consistently than the guy who has to roll a 13 every day, and hope he doesn't roll a 6 and lose his material.

-Hyp.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I would go further than that, and say that that's exactly what most professional craftsmen would do every day.

Nobody's going to set themselves up as a master craftsman if they need to roll an 18 every day to get it right. They'll find what they can turn out consistently, and that's what they'll advertise, make, and sell every day.

If the best the blacksmith can manage taking 10 is a horseshoe that works, he'll make horseshoes. If he can take 10 and turn out masterwork exotic weapons, he'd be a fool to make anything less, while there's a market... because he can do it better, cheaper, and more consistently than the guy who has to roll a 13 every day, and hope he doesn't roll a 6 and lose his material.

HS is certainly right. The only time that craftsmen wouldn't take 10 is when they're learning their craft, and if they're forced to make something beyond their skill (the small town's craftsman making a mw hand crossbow, for example).