Take a look at a thumbnail premise for a Star Wars campaign

[Jd Smith1]

My players want a Star Wars campaign, but I am hesitant because I've only seen the first three movies and bits of two more. However, I've worked up premise outline for their review to test the waters. Tell me what you think. We'll be using the 5e/Star Wars conversion rules.

Adjusted Timeline​

1000 BBY: Not long after establishing the Rule of Two, Darth Bane vanishes while searching out the tombs of earlier Sith Lords.

History continues according to the timeline used here:
Timeline of galactic history

Year Zero, The Battle of Yavin Four: The Death Star deploys to the Yavin system to engage the Rebellion’s Base One, the rebel C3 center.
Armed with detailed plans of the Death Star, the Rebels counter-attack. Darth Vader leads the Imperial fighters against the Rebels. In a bloody engagement between two large fighter groups the Rebels are decimated, and the first ‘trench run’ fails.

A second trench run manages (with help from Han Solo) to get a single fighter within launch range of the exhaust port. The pilot, a potential Jedi (Luke Skywalker) successfully launches his torpedoes into the exhaust port.

But the torpedo warheads do not detonate. In the subsequent fighting around the station, Skywalker, Solo, and Lord Vader are all killed, the latter reportedly by Skywalker suicide-ramming his damaged fighter.

Minutes after Skywalker’s failed run the Death Star obliterates Yavin 4, and with it Rebel Base One and key Rebel leadership.

Several weeks after the battle Rebel Intelligence discovers that Darth Bane is not only alive, but the Master of Darth Sidious; Bane had returned to Known Space no later than 30 BBY, contacted Darth Sidious, and revoked the Rule of Two in favor of something called the Rule of Belief(what the RoB is remains unclear). Darth Bane brought with him several hundred Sith he referred to as his Yellow Conclave, and set about a plan to unify Known Space in an Empire ruled by the Sith. Since his return scores of Sith have been entering his service; these volunteers are integrated into the Imperial governmental structure not long after the Battle of Yavin Four.

Also learned was that a Sith shrine was built aboard the Death Star by a detachment of the Yellow Conclave, and its malign powers were responsible for the failure of the torpedo warheads. The shrine was not noticeable on the blueprints. It is unclear whether the Emperor understood the significance of the shrine; it is certain that Darth Vader did not.

How Darth Bane is still alive, where he has been, and what he did before returning are questions that remain unsolved. His presence is a tightly guarded Imperial secret, one which the Rebels have not exposed because it serves little purpose to do so.

Despite the defeat at Yavin, the Rebellion replaces the command staff lost with Base One, and their resistance swiftly escalates into a civil war.

The Rule of One​

No matter how many movies, TV shows, cartoons, comic books, and/or novels you have experienced, the setting is based solely upon the GM’s interpretation.

Note: there are no Jedi, only ‘Force -sensitive’ types, due to the nature of the rules.

The PCs will make up the crew of a small ship serving the Rebel intelligence services. They hunt kyber crystal, clues regarding the Sith/RoB/Darth Bane, and similar high-value missions. They are ‘blind operatives’, meaning they receive very little support from the Rebel Alliance, but are protected from exposure by treason or Imperial action because the Rebel files do not contain anything but a code name and a communications protocol. Therefore they can operate in Imperial space.

Think ‘Firefly’ meets ‘Turn’, ‘Colony’, or ‘Man in the High Castle’. PCs can be dedicated Rebels, smugglers, or just outlaws.

There will need to be a great deal of work done on the timeline post-Yavin, but before I invest the effort, I wanted to run the concept past the players.

If this is acceptable, this will be the campaign that follows the Digenesis campaign.

 

[Ovinomancer]

The Rebellion on Yavin 4 was it -- the entire collection of people willing to openly take up arms against the Empire. There were other rebel sympathizers, but they broke with the Rebellion over openly attacking the Death Star and would be extremely unlikely to suddenly open civil war after so crushing a defeat at Yavin 4.

In other words, your alternate plot has glaring holes continuing past Yavin 4. The idea of "let's refight the OT without the movie heroes and with loads more Sith" isn't bad, but the attempt to cleave to cannon is missing some critical elements.

 

[Jd Smith1]

The Rebellion on Yavin 4 was it -- the entire collection of people willing to openly take up arms against the Empire. There were other rebel sympathizers, but they broke with the Rebellion over openly attacking the Death Star and would be extremely unlikely to suddenly open civil war after so crushing a defeat at Yavin 4.

In other words, your alternate plot has glaring holes continuing past Yavin 4. The idea of "let's refight the OT without the movie heroes and with loads more Sith" isn't bad, but the attempt to cleave to cannon is missing some critical elements.

I don't know how far past Yavin the campaign will take place.

But one base would not hold the people needed for a galaxy-wide rebellion.

Losing one base would not be a crushing defeat; Yavin was significant because in canon the Empire lost a potent symbol of its strength: the Death Star itself.

All the Imperial victory would accomplish is accelerated promotions within the Rebel Alliance.

The Imperial strategy of planet destruction is critically flawed: it eliminates a middle, disinterested position; the population is forced to choose a side and take action.

I foresee the Empire realizing its mistake and transitioning to a precision strike policy (much like the US drone program) as the Rebels shift down to insurgent actions and terror strikes (so as not to make planetary destruction economically feasible).

 

[Zardnaar]

Empire being dumb is kind of the tropes. Are you familiar with Grand Admiral Thrawn (the smart imperial) or the Old Republic (more Sith) era.

If you run infinities (basically rewriting the plot) maybe gave the heros blow up the Death Star instead.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Empire being dumb is kind of the tropes. Are you familiar with Grand Admiral Thrawn (the smart imperial) or the Old Republic (more with) era.

If you run infinities (basically rewriting the plot) maybe gave the heros blow up the Death Star instead.

You don't build a galactic Empire by being stupid. I don't run dumb villains, either.

I'm not familiar with your examples; like I said, three movies.

I'm not interested in blowing up the Death Star, nor any plot tied to the media.

What I am looking at is twisting the canon history so that it is still 'Star Wars', but eliminating my players' deep knowledge of canon.

 

[Eltab]

You can get the same effect if the campaign is set during the Death Star's construction. The Empire is transitioning from "saved us from the Clone Wars" to "oppressive for no good reason". The movie heroes are just ordinary people. Vader is an enforcer of last resort, somebody the PCs only hear rumors about. Bane as you describe him will stay super-secret - but the campaign point can be to illuminate the situation.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I don't know how far past Yavin the campaign will take place.

But one base would not hold the people needed for a galaxy-wide rebellion.

Losing one base would not be a crushing defeat; Yavin was significant because in canon the Empire lost a potent symbol of its strength: the Death Star itself.

All the Imperial victory would accomplish is accelerated promotions within the Rebel Alliance.

The Imperial strategy of planet destruction is critically flawed: it eliminates a middle, disinterested position; the population is forced to choose a side and take action.

I foresee the Empire realizing its mistake and transitioning to a precision strike policy (much like the US drone program) as the Rebels shift down to insurgent actions and terror strikes (so as not to make planetary destruction economically feasible).

As someone that started by admitting they haven't seen the movies and submitted your udea for review, you seem very willing to insist your version is correct.

Rogue One clearly establishes the state of the Rebellion and that it's military ability had concentrated at Yavin 4. They have a small fleet still mobile, but it had just been severely reduced at the Battle of Scarif and has no other base capable of supporting the fleet. Many of the non-military powers of the Rebellion were destroyed or completely neutered by the destruction of Alderaan and the political power of the Senate. They were political creatures, not guerillas.

Further, knowledge of the Death Star was still secret. The Empire was spinning the story of Alderaan's destruction for positive PR. The average member of the Empire was doing well -- the Rebellion was an ideological movement not widely shared -- and prone to believe the Empire PR over disaffected dissidents. It wasn't until the destruction of the Death Star that the Rebellion managed to convince it's less militarist factions that victiry was even possible, and that access was what started to break down Imperial spin.

You've chosen to remove the one event that was the survival crisis of the Rebellion and launching point of it's ultimate success. You can do this, but not in the handwavy way you've done, which assumes that the loss if Yavin 4, Alderaan, and Leia (who's critical to the Rebellion in ways Han and Luke aren't) are minor setbacks while leaving the Empire with the awesome power of a Death Star AND a new flood of Sith warriors. You need a lot more work at the crux point.

Or, stop caring at all about canon. Your core game conflict is fine for Star Wars; it's the attempt to slot it into canon without a reasonable grasp of the material that has some issues. You can either do more work to shore up the canon, or just say screw it, dump the entire attempt at canon compatibility, and play a game.

 

[Jd Smith1]

As someone that started by admitting they haven't seen the movies and submitted your udea for review, you seem very willing to insist your version is correct.

That's the GM in me. It's not that I see it as 'right', but both logical and also the sort of tone I want to strive for.

Rogue One clearly establishes the state of the Rebellion and that it's military ability had concentrated at Yavin 4. They have a small fleet still mobile, but it had just been severely reduced at the Battle of Scarif and has no other base capable of supporting the fleet. Many of the non-military powers of the Rebellion were destroyed or completely neutered by the destruction of Alderaan and the political power of the Senate. They were political creatures, not guerillas.

Never saw Rogue One, so it won't be factoring into my campaign. I've only seen the first three movies.

There is no way the Rebellion can obtain the industry base , the infrastructure, or the training establishment to take on the Empire in a direct military confrontation. Their only hope is in insurgent action.

Further, knowledge of the Death Star was still secr et. The Empire was spinning the story of Alderaan's destruction for positive PR. The average member of the Empire was doing well -- the Rebellion was an ideological movement not widely shared -- and prone to believe the Empire PR over disaffected dissidents. It wasn't until the destruction of the Death Star that the Rebellion managed to convince it's less militarist factions that victiry was even possible, and that access was what started to break down Imperial spin.

You've chosen to remove the one event that was the survival crisis of the Rebellion and launching point of it's ultimate success. You can do this, but not in the handwavy way you've done, which assumes that the loss if Yavin 4, Alderaan, and Leia (who's critical to the Rebellion in ways Han and Luke aren't) are minor setbacks while leaving the Empire with the awesome power of a Death Star AND a new flood of Sith warriors. You need a lot more work at the crux point.

Or, stop caring at all about canon. Your core game conflict is fine for Star Wars; it's the attempt to slot it into canon without a reasonable grasp of the material that has some issues. You can either do more work to shore up the canon, or just say screw it, dump the entire attempt at canon compatibility, and play a game.

Now you've got it! I don't care about canon, post Yavin.

An Imperial victory at Yavin forces the Rebellion to abandon the idea of direct military action, and will force it into low-intensity conflict where the Death Star will be useless.

This makes a prolonged campaign based on a small crew viable, and gives me a great deal of background material to work with as both the Imperial and Rebel commands struggle with new roles. In particular, I see the Rebels feuding over issues such as terror strikes against soft targets as opposed to direct (and riskier) targeting of military/governmental assets or industrial sabotage. And Rebel military holdouts arguing for hut and run raids as opposed to psyops-driven long-term efforts. And disputes over some factions getting in bed with drug dealers and organized crime in order to secure funding (ala Irish groups).

Meanwhile the Empire will has issues between the 'big ship' commanders versus the intelligence and COIN ops advocates. Between the mass retaliation advocates versus the hearts & minds crowd.

The German rear area security operations in the USSR in WW2 and Soviet operations in post-WW2 Ukraine/Poland, and Afghan provide a perfect model for transitioning Imperial focus and response.

The PCs are not going to be blowing up capital ships or similar actions; they will be hunting crystals, tech, secrets, and seeking out profits on the side while trying to keep their cover intact.

Star Wars Canon is about a couple of heroes, usually teenagers without a formal education, having a galaxy-wide impact. It's Bill and Ted's Adventure in space. I have no interest in recreating that.

What I am going to create is Star WARS: the PCs being a tiny cog in a very large war. Saving Private Ryan in space.

The canon history up to Yavin is just a convenience.

 

[Ovinomancer]

That's the GM in me. It's not that I see it as 'right', but both logical and also the sort of tone I want to strive for.



Never saw Rogue One, so it won't be factoring into my campaign. I've only seen the first three movies.

There is no way the Rebellion can obtain the industry base , the infrastructure, or the training establishment to take on the Empire in a direct military confrontation. Their only hope is in insurgent action.



Now you've got it! I don't care about canon, post Yavin.

An Imperial victory at Yavin forces the Rebellion to abandon the idea of direct military action, and will force it into low-intensity conflict where the Death Star will be useless.

This makes a prolonged campaign based on a small crew viable, and gives me a great deal of background material to work with as both the Imperial and Rebel commands struggle with new roles. In particular, I see the Rebels feuding over issues such as terror strikes against soft targets as opposed to direct (and riskier) targeting of military/governmental assets or industrial sabotage. And Rebel military holdouts arguing for hut and run raids as opposed to psyops-driven long-term efforts.

Meanwhile the Empire will has issues between the 'big ships' commanders versus the intelligence and COIN ops advocates. Between the mass retaliation advocates versus the hearts & minds crowd.

The German rear area security operations in the USSR in WW2 and Soviet operations in post-WW2 Ukraine/Poland, and Afghan provide a perfect model for transitioning Imperial focus and response.

The PCs are not going to be blowing up capital ships or similar actions; they will be hunting crystals, tech, secrets, and seeking out profits on the side while trying to keep their cover intact.

Star Wars Canon is about a couple of heroes, usually teenagers without a formal education, having a galaxy-wide impact. It's Bill and Ted's Adventure in space. I have no interest in recreating that.

What I am going to create is Star WARS: the PCs being a tiny cog in a very large war. Saving Private Ryan in space.

The canon history up to Yavin is just a convenience.

Cool, but I'd ditch the canon completely. For anyone that has seen the films, much less cared about a lot of the canon around it (like the Rebels cartoons), it's jarring, largely due to a number of fundamental changes you've made that mean that it doesn't actually line up to cannon very well at all. Just go pick a different, not as codified, time in Star Wars (there are millennia available!) and set your tiny cog in a large war story there. You can lift the bones of your story (Sith Empire being resisted by a small guerrilla resistance) and drop them just about anywhere else in the timeline. The canon references are actually inconvenient.

That said, it's your game, do what you want. I promise I will not call the canon police on you. You did, however, ask for comment. Happy to have obliged.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Cool, but I'd ditch the canon completely. For anyone that has seen the films, much less cared about a lot of the canon around it (like the Rebels cartoons), it's jarring, largely due to a number of fundamental changes you've made that mean that it doesn't actually line up to cannon very well at all. Just go pick a different, not as codified, time in Star Wars (there are millennia available!) and set your tiny cog in a large war story there. You can lift the bones of your story (Sith Empire being resisted by a small guerrilla resistance) and drop them just about anywhere else in the timeline. The canon references are actually inconvenient.

That said, it's your game, do what you want. I promise I will not call the canon police on you. You did, however, ask for comment. Happy to have obliged.

I wanted feedback; this exchange has clarified a lot of what I am looking for.

One thing, though: you mentioned that the majority of the Empire's citizens are happy with the status quo and doing well.

That raises the question of what the Rebels are fighting for; it would seem that they are in direct opposition to the majority of citizens, and violently trying to impose their political ambitions on an unwilling populace.

Add in Luke Skywalker killing two million people because the voices in his head said to, and the entire mortal underpinning of the Rebellion is in serious question.

That's why I never really caught on to the canon: Lucas failed to establish the evil nature of the Empire beyond background music.