Taking 10 on Spellcraft Checks to Learn a Spell?

[Kershek]

Rats, that's what I get for skimming articles while in a training class Thanks, kreynolds.

 

[kreynolds]

Rats, that's what I get for skimming articles while in a training class

Ah. It's nothin'. Check me out on this thread, starting with my 2nd post.

 

[Pax]

Not even for attack rolls? That would be a house rule then wouldn't it?

IceBear

For me, the rule is / will be: Roll a 1, and you rolled a "-10" ... apply your BAB, Save Bonus, Skill Bonus, or whatever.

Roll a 20, and you rolled "30" ... apply BAB, Save Bonus, Skill Bonus, and so on.

1's and 20's are NEVER automatic fail or succeed -- they are just VERY bad or VERY good, respectively.

On the flipside, "taking 20" doesn't give you the "30" result, and noone can "take 30".

This means the wizard(15) with a net +25 Spellcract actually CAN fail to learn a 6th level spell (roll a 1, 25-10=16, DC was 16). Whereas a Fighter (14)/Wizard(1), with a net spellcraft of only +5, CAN perform some of the higher-DC Spellcraft uses (roll a 20, 10+30=40).

Either way, it takes a semi-extraordinary twist of luck or fate for either to happen.

 

[IceBear]

Yeah, I know a lot of people that use something similar.

IceBear

 

[Caliban]

There is an exception to this rule - you cannot take 10 on Knowledge checks. This is explicitly mentioned in the PHB.

Really? That's news to me. Where does it state this explicitly?

 

[Kershek]

Really? That's news to me. Where does it state this explicitly?

I don't have access to the PHB right now. I could only find it under "Bardic Knowledge" under the Bard description in the SRD, though. Perhaps I was confusing it for that. Maybe someone else can look at the PHB.

 

[kreynolds]

I don't have access to the PHB right now. I could only find it under "Bardic Knowledge" under the Bard description in the SRD, though. Perhaps I was confusing it for that.

Yup. Bardic Knowledge does indeed state that you can't take a 10 or 20 on the check. But it's not a skill anyway.

Maybe someone else can look at the PHB.

The Knowledge skill doesn't include an exception in its description about take a 10. I'm not aware of any errata either. Anybody else?

 

[Li Shenron]

There is an exception to this rule - you cannot take 10 on Knowledge checks. This is explicitly mentioned in the PHB.

Actually, I think that this MUST be somewhere, although I can't find it in the SRD. Can anybody check from the PHB?
I have never allowed to take 10 or take 20 on a Knowledge check, and I can't believe I came up by myself with this idea...

If someone can Take 10 (or 20) in a Knowledge skill, it means he knows EVERYTHING in that field below a given DC, which doesn't sound right at all.

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BTW, a 1 is not an automiss for skills. Otherwise the "classic" explanation of Take 20 crumbles apart.

 

[kreynolds]

If someone can Take 10 (or 20) in a Knowledge skill, it means he knows EVERYTHING in that field below a given DC, which doesn't sound right at all.

He might know every easily answerable question. What's so wrong with that? Given that the DCs range from 10 up to 30, I don't think that's gamebreaking.

 

[wheeljack]

From Sean K Reynolds site were he has a handy dandy list of what you can and can't take 20 on


Knowledge:
No, because the skill represents an on-the-spot perusal of your memory, and you can't retry being put on the spot. I would like to see a mechanic for a more thorough search of your memory (because your mind holds a lot of info that sometimes takes a minute to ferret it out), and I'll address that in my analysis of the Skills chapter later.

So um yeah I guess you can't take a 20