Taking Actions to make Saving Throws, or: Reality vs. RAW

[mneme]

I'd always allow stuff like this. Trying to negate a power via paranoid preparation? Probably not. But spending actions in combat? That's how the game is -supposed- to work.

In theory, you can make a DC Heal check to give a save for -any- condition. But...this makes more sense for some conditions than others. So if the skill is more appropriate than Heal, you give a bonus -- make it a lower DC, or a move or minor action (to, say, use Arcana to deal with a magical lingering effect, or Athletics to pull someone out of a crevasse). If it's less appropriate than heal, you give a penalty or don't let them do it at all.

The rules of 4e are harder than some other editions -- in that you generally shouldn't disallow people using abilities or skills based on flavor text -- no "oh, you don't have room to swing your spear, so I won't let you use that encounter power", etc. But they're still a framework upon which to hang narrative, not the narrative itself. When the flavor/situation -enables- an action, you generally should allow it, at an appropriate cost and difficulty.

If you don't allow the narrative to influence the mechanics, you aren't playing a RPG -- you're playing a miniatures combat system you're pretending is an RPG. The narrative is the whole goal of the game--the shared fantasy you're creating (GM and players). So if you don't allow that narrative to matter -- to feed back into the mechanics and therefore the ongoing story -- then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Blue]

Say Yes.

Just like 3rd ed had "rule zero", in 4e if you're not sure, follow "say yes". Want to spend a standard action to pull out a crossbow bolt? Or stop, drop, and roll to put out ongoing fire damage? Go for it.

Mechanically, I'd do it just like someone with the heal skill can grant a save. (So it's funny someone could use their heal skill to let you try to pull out your crossbow bolt.)

But really, the game is designed to be simple mechanics so that a DM+group can work with it to whatever level they like. Page 42 in the DMG give guidelines for improvisation such as this, giving sample DCs and such. (Note: DCs have been errata's, so grab that if you're looking at a print copy.)

 

[S'mon]

The rules of 4e are harder than some other editions -- in that you generally shouldn't disallow people using abilities or skills based on flavor text -- no "oh, you don't have room to swing your spear, so I won't let you use that encounter power", etc. But they're still a framework upon which to hang narrative, not the narrative itself...

I think the secret to successfully sneaking 'narrative' (ie in-world reality) into 4e is to grant bonuses rather than impose penalties, whenever possible. Eg you might create a cramped shipboard encounter where characters with cutlasses or light stabbing weapons get +2 to hit, or maybe even grant combat advantage, and perhaps get a +2 AC bonus. It could be boiled into the monster stat blocks of the pirates the PCs are fighting; maybe they're 9th level skirmishers because they're really good at ship fighting, off-ship they become mere 2nd level human bandits.

 

[mneme]

I think the secret to successfully sneaking 'narrative' (ie in-world reality) into 4e is to grant bonuses rather than impose penalties, whenever possible.

I agree -- it's why I stated that while you shouldn't disallow a Heal check from granting a save (even if Heal isn't the -most- appropriate skill), it's totally cool to allow the use of another appropriate skill at an appropriate bonus or penalty.