Taking your time and being careful

[Menexenus]

Earlier today, I started a thread about Taking 20 in which I learned a lot in a very short amount of time. (Thanks to those who helped me understand how it works.) In particular, I learned that you can't Take 20 to disarm a trap without setting it off. And the reason why is because Taking 20 represents trying again and again until you get the best result possible (but before you get that optimal result you will get some sub-optimal results).

Previously, I had always thought that Taking 20 meant taking your time and being careful, but apparently that is wrong. Is there any mechanism in D&D that represents, taking your time and being careful in order to produce an above average result?

Taking 10 is a *quick* way to guarantee an *average* result when you are not in combat. That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for some way for characters to take their time, be careful, and try to make their first attempt their *best* attempt (or at least better than average).

Think of someone trying to disarm a bomb in a d20 Modern campaign. Or think of Indianna Jones trying to trade out the bag of sand for the golden idol at the beginning of Raiders of the Lost Ark. He knows he will only get one shot at it. So he takes his time considering the best way to achieve his goal. He dumps out a little bit of excess sand, and then carefully tries to make the switch. Of course, Indy fails in this particular case, but I hope you get the point. It seems like there ought to be a way in D&D for a player to say that I am taking my time and being careful so that my first attempt is as good as it can be.

If there is no way to do this within the rules, what sorts of house rules have people used to accommodate a situation like this? Thanks in advance.

 

[Bauglir]

The way I see it, taking 10 is doing something in a careful and controlled manner - it would represent the best result you could expect without either good luck (as in a random roll) or some trial and error (take 20)

 

[werk]

Or think of Indianna Jones trying to trade out the bag of sand for the golden idol at the beginning of Raiders of the Lost Ark. He knows he will only get one shot at it. So he takes his time considering the best way to achieve his goal. He dumps out a little bit of excess sand, and then carefully tries to make the switch. Of course, Indy fails in this particular case, but I hope you get the point. It seems like there ought to be a way in D&D for a player to say that I am taking my time and being careful so that my first attempt is as good as it can be.

DMs can throw around circumstantial modifiers. You could easily apply a +2 or +4 or more depending on what you as a DM would consider appropriate preperation time. I would probably base it on something along the lines of knowledge (engineering, dungeoneering, local, religion, etc...whatever applies) checks to give bonuses or penalties depending on the check result...just 'taking a long time' wouldn't be enough for me.

 

[Wystan]

The way I see it, taking 10 is doing something in a careful and controlled manner - it would represent the best result you could expect without either good luck (as in a random roll) or some trial and error (take 20)

This seems like the best route to me.

 

[Mistwell]

I'd say if take more time to prepare for a skill check, in calm conditions, then you should get a circumstance bonus on your check. If you are doing something that you could have taken 10 on (ie you met the conditions to take 10), and that thing could have been done as a standard action or full round action, and you instead take double that time to prepare (or more), then you should get a circumstance bonus on the check.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The way I see it, taking 10 is doing something in a careful and controlled manner - it would represent the best result you could expect without either good luck (as in a random roll) or some trial and error (take 20)

This is how I see it as well.

 

[MarkB]

The Indiana Jones and the Idol example is actually a perfect example of taking 10 (as are his handling of the previous traps in that sequence). He's carefully and methodically making his attempt at avoiding the trap, but using a simple and conventional method that ultimately doesn't pay off. If he'd rolled the check and got a high result, he might have noticed a feature of the idol's design that suggested it wasn't quite as heavy as it looked, or worked out the mechanism of the falling pedestal and used some of the expended darts from the previous trap to jam it and stop it dropping. But doing such things requires more than just care and attention - it requires unusual inspiration, or some high-risk guesswork, and it goes beyond what a character can do reliably, even when under absolutely no time pressure.

 

[Menexenus]

I disagree that Taking 10 is the same as taking your time and being as careful as possible, and here's why: you can Take 10 in a single round (i.e. six seconds). I'm trying to find a mechanic that allows you to really take your time, size up the situation, and do the best you possibly can. (The Take 10 mechanic simulates the fact that when you are not under stress you can easily achieve a result that is average for your character's ability level. It clearly does not simulate taking your time and being as careful as possible with a task.)

What I'm trying to do is describe what a rogue is doing when she is disarming a trap. She is taking her time, sizing up the situation, and being careful, because she knows that her first attempt has to be her best. Since the Take 20 mechanic is obviously not designed to accomodate this, there should be something else instead.

Some have suggested circumstance bonuses. That seems to be the only thing that the RAW have to offer here. How much of a circumstance bonus would you offer? Would it make any difference if the rogue took her time and studied the trap for 2 minutes, 20 minutes, 2 hours? I'm thinking that I would cap the circumstance bonus at +5. What do the rest of you think?

 

[MarkB]

I'd consider allowing a circumstance bonus for extra time, but I'd cap it at equivalent to a synergy bonus: +2. And most of the time, I'd consider even that inapplicable.

 

[Inigo Carmine]

I disagree that Taking 10 is the same as taking your time and being as careful as possible, and here's why: you can Take 10 in a single round (i.e. six seconds).

Not necessarily. Taking 10 takes as long as a normal skill check. For instance, Disabling a trap takes 2d4 rounds.

What I'm trying to do is describe what a rogue is doing when she is disarming a trap. She is taking her time, sizing up the situation, and being careful, because she knows that her first attempt has to be her best.

The thing is, realistically, doing things like that don't really help or make you better. What you're describing is, for the most part, procrastination. Admittedly, if I was faced with disarming a bomb (or in aD&D sense , some life-threatening trap) I'd be doing some serious procrastination myself, but it won't make it any better in the end, it just delays the end.

Occasionally, taking time for extra observation can pay off, but not in a straight out-of-the-blue bonus to a skill. For instance, if you're trying to jump over a 15-ft pit, taking your time isn't going to help you jump better. If while "taking your time" you happen to notice something (spot/search) like the fact that 20 ft over there the pit lessens to a mere 10 ft, you might have an easier time making it across but this is because the DC is lower. Or, you might notice a nice sturdy yet flexible pole and use it to vault yourself over, but this is because you've used a tool to make your jump better.