D&D General Talking to Players

[MichaelSomething]

This is the problem, though.

They say "We want to do a pirate adventure campaign!"

I say "Well, can you be more specific?"

They say "like fun, cool pirate stuff!"

Doesn't sound like a problem to me. Your players trust you! So they're empowering you to use your judgement to create free from restriction!

Have you considered listening to pirate shanties for inspiration?

 

[BookTenTiger]

This is the problem, though.

They say "We want to do a pirate adventure campaign!"

I say "Well, can you be more specific?"

They say "like fun, cool pirate stuff!"

But that's not what I suggested. Give them specific scenarios and ask how they would react to them.

For a Secret Agent game, maybe say something like:

"Your handler has sent you to retrieve some files from the office of the CEO of a major weapons manufacturer. However, as you sneak into his office you find him in the middle of a meeting with a notorious terrorist group, handing over the plans for a mega weapon. How would you react?"

Then you can see what their understanding of a Secret Agent Game is. Do they go in guns blazing? Do they continue to observe and take notes? Do they try to sabotage from the shadows?

As far as I can understand from your original post, you are concerned that your concept of a Pirate Adventure game or a Secret Agent game is different than your players'. And asking them questions that are too open-ended doesn't seem to be working. So go specific, and see if your understandings line up.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes, it makes more sense they are saying “nautical swashbuckler,” and not "bloody pirate".

I’d think someone familiar with the likes of Treasure Island, Cutthroat Island, and Errol Flynn’s work would easily recognize that, but glad you got there eventually.

Well, a "movie" is really just a short story often like "a day" of a single adventure. It's not a campaign.

Depends on how lost the treasure is, and what other stuff happens along the way to finding it.

I’m noticing a common element between this thread and your other one with the the exiled elf Princess character. Besides the reluctance to talk to the players, I mean. In that thread you also seemed to struggle to extend “petition the human kingdom for military aid” into a long-term campaign. If I may be so bold, I get the impression that you struggle with the notion of making a long-term campaign out the obstacles that come between the PCs and their long-term goals.

A movie is "find the lost treasure" but a campaign does not work as "find the lost treasure...again" everyday.

Why not? I mean, maybe finding some lost treasure or other by the end of every adventuring day would be a bit much, but there’s no reason a treasure has to be found by the end of a single adventuring day (again with the advice to make an adventure out of the obstacles that come between the PCs and their goals), and fundamentally there’s nothing wrong with episodic storytelling.

In addition to the Pirates of the Caribbean films (of which I reiterate, you should absolutely watch at least the first three, and more than that wouldn’t hurt), I also recommend you check out Pirates of Dark Water. Your players might not be familiar with it unless they’re on the older end of the millennial range, but it is a good example of episodic “high seas swashbuckling” storytelling. There are 13 treasures the protagonists are trying to find before the evil pirate captain Bloth does, and they only got 8 of them in the 21 episodes the show ran before it was canceled.

The third Pirates of the Caribbean film also had a “gather several treasures” framing device, where the protagonists and the antagonists were competing to assemble the “nine pieces of eight” (which were not actual coin fragments, but magical trinkets used in a ritual by the nine Pirate Lords many years ago) to summon the goddess of the sea.

Something along these lines may be beneficial to you as well. Sail to various islands full of mystery and danger in order to gather all the McGuffins before the bad guys do! Each McGuffin could easily take a month worth of adventuring to find under the best of circumstances, and with twelve of them you’ve got at least a year worth of campaign just “(trying to) find the lost treasure again” every session.

This is the problem, though.

They say "We want to do a pirate adventure campaign!"

I say "Well, can you be more specific?"

They say "like fun, cool pirate stuff!"

Yeah. Sail around, find and follow cryptic maps, explore mysterious islands inhabited by strange and deadly wildlife, dig up buried and possibly cursed treasures, fight other swashbuckling sailors with swords and powder-and-shot pistols, probably get attacked by at least one sea monster at some point. Fun, cool pirate stuff.

 

[Baron Opal II]

I also recommend you check out Pirates of Dark Water.

Came here just to recommend that! It's a great cartoon that has some adult sensibilities. Shame that it was cancelled so quickly.

 

[bloodtide]

I’d think someone familiar with the likes of Treasure Island, Cutthroat Island, and Errol Flynn’s work would easily recognize that, but glad you got there eventually.

When I think "pirate" game, I'm thinking of a dark, gritty, unrated, evil type game. I'm not thinking of the happy guy swinging on a rope saying "tally-ho". I think a show like Black Sails for pirates.

It's like someone saying they want to play a "carjacker game", but they mean an "car racing game"

I’m noticing a common element between this thread and your other one with the the exiled elf Princess character. Besides the reluctance to talk to the players, I mean. In that thread you also seemed to struggle to extend “petition the human kingdom for military aid” into a long-term campaign. If I may be so bold, I get the impression that you struggle with the notion of making a long-term campaign out the obstacles that come between the PCs and their long-term goals.

The problem is I like and want a long, long "rags to riches" style game that is HARD. And I'm not a Buddy DM that is a fan of the players. They get no help from me during the game. And I expect a huge level of simulation.

Now my Spelljammer game is made up of players like them. The big difference is that they really, really, really wanted to play in a Spelljammer game(and still do). So in game one they get into a ship fight...and loose badly with half the characters dying. What is left of their ship crashes on a moon and they have near nothing. Now THIS is the point where a lot of casual players will storm out of my game: they "lost" so they will take their dice and go home.

They try and fix their ship enough to take off, with two new 'moon' characters...but I run a hard core resource game. And it's a wild moon with no magic shops. Then their foes come after them and they are captured. They escape...and get the clever idea to take the foes ship. Lots of fighting...but they win and scrap the other ship to just barley make their ship spaceworthy. And spend the next game limping around space, hiding and trying to fix the ship.

Few casual gamers would stick with the above game. As soon as they lost the fight they would have just complained, told me i'm a bad dm and ran away. But my Spelljammer group stuck with it as they WANTED to...so they could take the good and bad. This group does not have that drive.

Why not? I mean, maybe finding some lost treasure or other by the end of every adventuring day would be a bit much, but there’s no reason a treasure has to be found by the end of a single adventuring day (again with the advice to make an adventure out of the obstacles that come between the PCs and their goals), and fundamentally there’s nothing wrong with episodic storytelling.

My point is more they said they wanted a "pirate game" not a "swashbuckling treasure hunt".

In addition to the Pirates of the Caribbean films (of which I reiterate, you should absolutely watch at least the first three, and more than that wouldn’t hurt), I also recommend you check out Pirates of Dark Water. Your players might not be familiar with it unless they’re on the older end of the millennial range, but it is a good example of episodic “high seas swashbuckling” storytelling. There are 13 treasures the protagonists are trying to find before the evil pirate captain Bloth does, and they only got 8 of them in the 21 episodes the show ran before it was canceled.

That sounds like a show to check out....that I've never heard of.

The third Pirates of the Caribbean film also had a “gather several treasures” framing device, where the protagonists and the antagonists were competing to assemble the “nine pieces of eight” (which were not actual coin fragments, but magical trinkets used in a ritual by the nine Pirate Lords many years ago) to summon the goddess of the sea.

That sounds like Swashbucklers of the Caribbean to me.......

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

When I think "pirate" game, I'm thinking of a dark, gritty, unrated, evil type game. I'm not thinking of the happy guy swinging on a rope saying "tally-ho". I think a show like Black Sails for pirates.

It's like someone saying they want to play a "carjacker game", but they mean an "car racing game"


The problem is I like and want a long, long "rags to riches" style game that is HARD. And I'm not a Buddy DM that is a fan of the players. They get no help from me during the game. And I expect a huge level of simulation.

Now my Spelljammer game is made up of players like them. The big difference is that they really, really, really wanted to play in a Spelljammer game(and still do). So in game one they get into a ship fight...and loose badly with half the characters dying. What is left of their ship crashes on a moon and they have near nothing. Now THIS is the point where a lot of casual players will storm out of my game: they "lost" so they will take their dice and go home.

They try and fix their ship enough to take off, with two new 'moon' characters...but I run a hard core resource game. And it's a wild moon with no magic shops. Then their foes come after them and they are captured. They escape...and get the clever idea to take the foes ship. Lots of fighting...but they win and scrap the other ship to just barley make their ship spaceworthy. And spend the next game limping around space, hiding and trying to fix the ship.

Few casual gamers would stick with the above game. As soon as they lost the fight they would have just complained, told me i'm a bad dm and ran away. But my Spelljammer group stuck with it as they WANTED to...so they could take the good and bad. This group does not have that drive.


My point is more they said they wanted a "pirate game" not a "swashbuckling treasure hunt".




That sounds like a show to check out....that I've never heard of.


That sounds like Swashbucklers of the Caribbean to me.......

Are you not understanding that what you consider “Pirate adventure” and what your players think of “pirate adventure” is not the same thing. Don’t get hung up on your definition, figure out theirs. They already told you “Pirates of the Caribbean,” so you should already have your answer, but you seem to continue to avoid it for some reason.

 

[pukunui]

My point is more they said they wanted a "pirate game" not a "swashbuckling treasure hunt".

And then you came here and asked us to tell you what we thought they meant. That is our answer.

@BookTenTiger has given you an excellent suggestion to get the information you need from your players themselves. To build on that, since you say you have Ghosts of Saltmarsh already, why don't you pitch that as a possible campaign and see if they bite. Say to them, "Would you like to play in a campaign where you can explore a haunted house, foil smugglers/slavers, negotiate with friendly lizardfolk, infiltrate a sahuagin undersea stronghold, salvage treasure from dangerous shipwrecks, explore islands haunted by undead, and investigate mysterious disappearances in a rundown port?"

If they say yes, then great, you've got yourself a ready-made campaign coverings levels 1-12 right there! The book also includes plenty of ideas and options for expanding on the adventure further, and you could look at including other thematically appropriate adventures like Last Breaths of Ashenport as well.

 

[BookTenTiger]

When I think "pirate" game, I'm thinking of a dark, gritty, unrated, evil type game. I'm not thinking of the happy guy swinging on a rope saying "tally-ho". I think a show like Black Sails for pirates.

It's like someone saying they want to play a "carjacker game", but they mean an "car racing game"


The problem is I like and want a long, long "rags to riches" style game that is HARD. And I'm not a Buddy DM that is a fan of the players. They get no help from me during the game. And I expect a huge level of simulation.

Now my Spelljammer game is made up of players like them. The big difference is that they really, really, really wanted to play in a Spelljammer game(and still do). So in game one they get into a ship fight...and loose badly with half the characters dying. What is left of their ship crashes on a moon and they have near nothing. Now THIS is the point where a lot of casual players will storm out of my game: they "lost" so they will take their dice and go home.

They try and fix their ship enough to take off, with two new 'moon' characters...but I run a hard core resource game. And it's a wild moon with no magic shops. Then their foes come after them and they are captured. They escape...and get the clever idea to take the foes ship. Lots of fighting...but they win and scrap the other ship to just barley make their ship spaceworthy. And spend the next game limping around space, hiding and trying to fix the ship.

Few casual gamers would stick with the above game. As soon as they lost the fight they would have just complained, told me i'm a bad dm and ran away. But my Spelljammer group stuck with it as they WANTED to...so they could take the good and bad. This group does not have that drive.


My point is more they said they wanted a "pirate game" not a "swashbuckling treasure hunt".




That sounds like a show to check out....that I've never heard of.


That sounds like Swashbucklers of the Caribbean to me.......

Have you tried proposing this kind of hardcore pirate game to your players? Maybe they'd be up for the challenge?

 

[Mort]

When I think "pirate" game, I'm thinking of a dark, gritty, unrated, evil type game. I'm not thinking of the happy guy swinging on a rope saying "tally-ho". I think a show like Black Sails for pirates.

It's like someone saying they want to play a "carjacker game", but they mean an "car racing game"


The problem is I like and want a long, long "rags to riches" style game that is HARD. And I'm not a Buddy DM that is a fan of the players. They get no help from me during the game. And I expect a huge level of simulation.

Now my Spelljammer game is made up of players like them. The big difference is that they really, really, really wanted to play in a Spelljammer game(and still do). So in game one they get into a ship fight...and loose badly with half the characters dying. What is left of their ship crashes on a moon and they have near nothing. Now THIS is the point where a lot of casual players will storm out of my game: they "lost" so they will take their dice and go home.

They try and fix their ship enough to take off, with two new 'moon' characters...but I run a hard core resource game. And it's a wild moon with no magic shops. Then their foes come after them and they are captured. They escape...and get the clever idea to take the foes ship. Lots of fighting...but they win and scrap the other ship to just barley make their ship spaceworthy. And spend the next game limping around space, hiding and trying to fix the ship.

Few casual gamers would stick with the above game. As soon as they lost the fight they would have just complained, told me i'm a bad dm and ran away. But my Spelljammer group stuck with it as they WANTED to...so they could take the good and bad. This group does not have that drive.


My point is more they said they wanted a "pirate game" not a "swashbuckling treasure hunt".




That sounds like a show to check out....that I've never heard of.


That sounds like Swashbucklers of the Caribbean to me.......

Quick question.

In your game, when a character dies, what are the rules for bringing in a new character?

Same level, leve-x, 1st level, something else? And how long before the player can bring in a new character?

 

[Umbran]

I think even real life pirates would be pretty annoyed by a cargo of pickled fish!

Yeah. Now, salted fish was a valuable standard of the day, but pickled fish wasn't nearly as valuable, due to its greater weight and more localized markets.