Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more then 30ft. apart.

[Marilyn_McFlare]

Got into a discussion with a few friend on this effect without coming to a consensus, and seeking clarification.

Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more then 30ft. apart.

Would this mean:
1.) that all targets have to be within 30ft
or
2.) if there's 3 characters, the 'middle' one can be 30 ft from both others, effectively putting the outside ones at 60ft from each other

(obviously, as always, comes down to the DM's interpretation, but the friend who inquired is a DM-in-training, and I don't DM in the d20 system)

 

[babomb]

Each target has to be within 30 feet of each other target.

Consider the following, in which the 'x's represent potential targets and '-'s are 5 ft. squares:

x-----x-----x

In such a case, you can only affect two of them (either the left and middle or the right and middle). You can't affect all three, because although the left and right targets are both 30 ft. from the center one, they're 60 ft. from each other.

 

[Thanee]

"No two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart" basically means, that for every pair of targets there cannot be a distance greater of 30 ft. between them.

So, if you have three targets A, B and C, A must be within 30 ft. to B, A must be within 30 ft. to C, and B must be within 30 ft. to C.

Regardless of which two you pick out, there must always be at most 30 ft. between them, or the spell cannot be cast on those targets.

So, it's similar to a 30 ft. diameter (15 ft. radius), but not exactly the same.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more then 30ft. apart.

If the distance between any two of the creatures is more than thirty feet, the selected targets are invalid.

If A and C are 60 feet apart, then where B is standing is irrelevant. "No two of which" includes A and B; B and C; and A and C. A and C are more than 30 feet apart, so you can't target all three with the spell.

-Hyp.

 

[Plane Sailing]

So, it's similar to a 30 ft. diameter (15 ft. radius), but not exactly the same.

I often wondered what WotC gains by using this moderately complicated statement above and beyond a simple "30ft diameter" or "30ft cube" area.

 

[shilsen]

I often wondered what WotC gains by using this moderately complicated statement above and beyond a simple "30ft diameter" or "30ft cube" area.

Maybe they figured (as I did) that it's completely clear and were surprised at how easily people are confused.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It is clear but requires that little bit of extra thought to check out the implementation. Hence my question - what benefit does it give over and above the simple area effect that used to be used?

 

[Doomhawk]

Well, for one thing it actually allows a slightly larger area. Consider three targets, each 30 feet from the others (so they form the vertices of an equilateral triangle). A 15-foot radius burst could not get all of them, because they're more than 15 feet from the center point of the triangle; however, a Chain Lightning-type spell could affect all of them.

 

[Chorn]

I remember seeing people who thought that magic missile was an area effect because of the wording back in 1E/2E days. It would take a pretty tortured reading to get that from the text but there you have it.

Isn't there a diagram that illustrates how a "no two..." spell works in the PHB? It was on the same page as magic missile in 3.0 if I recall.

 

[blargney the second]

Imagine being able to choose the targets of your fireball.
-blarg