Technical thread for Server Discussion (merged)
- Thread starter Piratecat
- Start date
Michael Morris
First Post
Adlon is still going with the SATA drives, for reasons that haven't been brought up by the SCSI enthusiasts - not the least of which is SCSI drives tend to have much shorter lifespans than SATAs.
I dunno though - I'm staying out of this. I trust Adlon to give us the most cost-effective solution. Sure, we can buy all this extreme high end stuff but it would hardly be cost effective.
To bring things down to the level most members of the boards can understand - consider standard desktops. Right now the median price is around $900. At that point you're getting great quality for the money. Sure a $2000 desktop is faster, but in 18 months it's going to be the $900 machine and you've wasted $1100. Meanwhile the $900 machine has only dropped to $500, a depreciation of $400.
At the end of the day we will have a machine (actually machines) that can serve us for the next three years (we hope - I have a feeling that once the slowdowns disappear the registration and use rate will jump up again). Adlon built the machine we're on now and it's done well for three years. I see no reason to doubt his ability to do it again.
I dunno though - I'm staying out of this. I trust Adlon to give us the most cost-effective solution. Sure, we can buy all this extreme high end stuff but it would hardly be cost effective.
To bring things down to the level most members of the boards can understand - consider standard desktops. Right now the median price is around $900. At that point you're getting great quality for the money. Sure a $2000 desktop is faster, but in 18 months it's going to be the $900 machine and you've wasted $1100. Meanwhile the $900 machine has only dropped to $500, a depreciation of $400.
At the end of the day we will have a machine (actually machines) that can serve us for the next three years (we hope - I have a feeling that once the slowdowns disappear the registration and use rate will jump up again). Adlon built the machine we're on now and it's done well for three years. I see no reason to doubt his ability to do it again.
Rodrigo Istalindir
Explorer
I think SATA is a big mistake. The performance isn't up to SCSI, thereliability isn't there yet, and the SATA standard is still evolving.
If SATA was good enough for high end servers, you'd see IBM, Dell, HP and the rest offering it as an option, and you don't. The only servers you see offering ATA or SATA are the entry level models. Get beyound the low end, and it's SCSI all the way.
If SATA was good enough for high end servers, you'd see IBM, Dell, HP and the rest offering it as an option, and you don't. The only servers you see offering ATA or SATA are the entry level models. Get beyound the low end, and it's SCSI all the way.
Michael Morris
First Post
Rodrigo Istalindir said:
I think calling it a big mistake might be going a bit far. I trust that Adlon knows what he's doing. He certainly knows more than I do on the subject.
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Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
This thread is very useful, because - although you'll seldom get a bunch of experts to agree on anything! - it makes sure that we're thinking through all of our options. For instance, we're not married to the serial ATA idea. It's partially going to be a question of how much money we have. We'll get roughly 7x current performance with the new machine using serial ATAs, and roughly 8x performance with SCSI drives... but we'll have to spend an additional $1000 - $1200 to do so. Is this worth it? Ultimately, it'll be up to the admins to decide, taking into account the recommendations of both knowledgeable members and the extremely competent technical folks on the server committee. My gut feeling is that it'll be worth spending the money for SCSI drives so long as donations keep coming in at this rate, but we'll make that call around the middle of this coming week.
Obviously, we'll keep you posted. Thank you for whatever educated insight you can offer.
Obviously, we'll keep you posted. Thank you for whatever educated insight you can offer.
Michael Morris said:
This is balanced by the rather hefty warranties that come with SCSI drives - its fairly easy to get replacements if one goes bad within the first 3 years (my experience with Seagate has been 4 day turnaround). While SATAs do have a longer life, the server that's being discussed (assuming that storage needs continue to skyrocket as they have since the inception of the site) looks to have a lifespan of 3 to 4 years. At that point longevity differences will be moot.
If I had to guess, I'd say Adlon began planning all of this within a certain budget - one that was quickly outstripped by the funds coming in.
Michael Morris
First Post
New Server Software Features & Wishlist
Much talk has been done about the technical specifications of the new server, but what really counts beyond the speed of access of the pages, but what about feature upgrades? Here are some of the things to keep an eye out in the coming months - some of which I'll need to write. Also keep in mind that some of these still need Russ' approval.
Much talk has been done about the technical specifications of the new server, but what really counts beyond the speed of access of the pages, but what about feature upgrades? Here are some of the things to keep an eye out in the coming months - some of which I'll need to write. Also keep in mind that some of these still need Russ' approval.
- Upon moving to the server I plan to upgrade the codebase to version 3.0.3a of vbulletin which closes some security holes. The PHP and Apache code will also be moved to their most recent incarnations.
- The top 20 site will be integrated into a full searchable links database and, yes, will continue to display a top 20 when such is requested.
- The D&D/D20 reviews pages will be folded into vbulletin properly. In addition to securing the contents from hacks, it will ease the moderation of the pages. I image it will pad Crothian's post count by another 1000 or so as well, but who's counting at this point.
- We've upgraded to a new ads server, but after the upgrade we'll be installing an extension to it that allows ads to be globally targetted. What this means is that advertisers can limit ad exposures to users in a certain area. For instance, every time Hong sees the Anycon ad it's a bit of a waste - I just don't see him going to a convention in Conneticutt cause he lives in Australlia. Convention advertisers will have the most fun with this feature I'm sure.
- Speaking of ads, Flash/Macromedia ads will be allowed on the new server - but users will have the ability to turn them off, which will cause the equivalent graphic ad to be displayed. Text only ads will also be supported and will be enabled in the Stealth styleset.
- Dusk will return and in the form I've always wanted to present it to you.
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Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
I merged the software/hardware threads in order to keep things clean.
Three notes on this:
- We're never going to have pop-up ads, and we won't have Flash ads that we think are annoying or irritating. We're huge fans of our advertisers selling product, but not at the risk of alienating our members.
- Dusk is Michael's baby, and we're certainly proud to host it, but technically it is a separate entity from the other EN World items on Michael's list. He's put a lot of work into that setting, and I don't want folks thinking that it's an EN World group creation.
- As Michael said, take these as action items but not promises. We'll tackle each step as we get to it, focusing on stability and functionality over enhancements. I'm glad he's the visionary; I'm not looking too far behind the upcoming mass data migration right now.
Three notes on this:
- We're never going to have pop-up ads, and we won't have Flash ads that we think are annoying or irritating. We're huge fans of our advertisers selling product, but not at the risk of alienating our members.
- Dusk is Michael's baby, and we're certainly proud to host it, but technically it is a separate entity from the other EN World items on Michael's list. He's put a lot of work into that setting, and I don't want folks thinking that it's an EN World group creation.
- As Michael said, take these as action items but not promises. We'll tackle each step as we get to it, focusing on stability and functionality over enhancements. I'm glad he's the visionary; I'm not looking too far behind the upcoming mass data migration right now.
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Michael Morris
First Post
Piratecat said:
I didn't mention pop-ups anywhere... The only way you'll get pop ups is if you intentionally turn them on - and even then you'll only get the tip of the day pop-ups (which have been fixed but not relaunched).
As to Dusk, let me clarify a bit. Yes, it's entirely my child (I wish I had help but, alas, never going to happen). That said, I've always wanted to equip the site with fully searchable databases so that the material is completely cross-referenced against the SRD. That means building 6 distinct database systems at the least - spells, feats, skills, races/monsters, characters, and classes. The ability to create characters and encounters based upon those databases is also a highly wanted.
Once the underlying structure is in place it still could take awhile to enter all the pertinent information into this. But that's my long term goal.
Psionicist
Explorer
Michael Morris said:
This is simply not true. I've read some misinformation in this thread, but this is by far the worst piece of FUD yet. SATA are desktop drives (value). SCSI drives are server drives (performance).
For the sake of proof, here's the Seagate Cheetah: http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,551,00.html
1 200 000 hours MTBF (mean time between failure)
Here's Seagates SATA-drives: http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/sata/cuda7200_sata_pm.pdf (page 15)
600 000 hours MTBF.
SCSI drives are generally more reliable than SATA drives. I can't believe Adlon claims otherwise.
