Teleport and Sneak Attack

[orion90000]

Treating it similarly to a Phase Spider's ability; it takes a move action to cast, but the teleportation is still as instantaneous as a Phase Spider phasing.

Teleport has a casting time of "1 standard action" not move action. The phase spider goes from ethereal to material as a free action.

Ethereal Jaunt (Su)
A phase spider can shift from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane as a free action, and shift back again as a move action (or during a move action). The ability is otherwise identical with ethereal jaunt (caster level 15th).

That's why I would rule that if it were a free action then I would allow the character to sneak attack. If it is a standard action then opponent would get to take another action before being attacked, thus denying the rogue a sneak attack unless the rogue was undetectable in some fashion (invisible, stealthed, etc).

 

[Sekhmet]

One of my characters has an item that allows them to teleport as a move action....

Teleport has a casting time of "1 standard action" not move action. The phase spider goes from ethereal to material as a free action.

Consider this.
If you were currently engaged in a melee with another person (which may be a hilarious concept among this board's usual participants), do you think you'd have any chance whatsoever to detect a person materializing immediately to your rear?

Would you have any chance whatsoever to dodge, twist away from, or otherwise evade any attack he made at you before you knew he was there?

Ethereal Jaunt (Su)
A phase spider can shift from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane as a free action, and shift back again as a move action (or during a move action).

In this case, it is shifting back into the Ethereal Plane that is the move action, whereas in our teleporter's case, it is activating his item that is a move action.

In both cases, the instantaneous portion is the ready action itself; the spider shifting to attack or the teleporter appearing and striking.

In neither case do you have any ability to detect where they are going to appear, so they should be treated similarly.

 

[Empirate]

Well, the teleporting PC appears from 40' away, while the Phase Spider comes from another plane entirely. Isn't that a little bit of a difference?

In the case of the Phase Spider, nobody has any inkling that there is a predator hunting for them until it's suddenly there and strikes - while in a combat situation, especially one that is messy and difficult to assess, you must basically be ready for anything.

Sure, if a Rogue drank a Potion of Invisibility, calmly walked to your backside, picked a spot between your shoulder blades that looked inviting to him, and then struck - you'd be flatfooted and, consequently, in a world of hurt. It's the same as a Phase Spider calmly tracking you on the Ethereal, then shifting over to deliver a bite.

But the teleporting character can't really pick his favorite organ to rip out of your backside when he's initiating a teleport from 40' away and has to strike immediately on arrival. For all I know, teleporting makes you a little dizzy as your perception is interrupted for the shortest moment and the resettles elsewhere.

Would the target be flat-footed? I don't think so, as you appear before you strike, whereas an invisible/ethereal creature attacks at the same moment they appear to you. There's nothing indicating flat-footedness unless the target is not aware of you at the time of attack.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, the teleporting PC appears from 40' away, while the Phase Spider comes from another plane entirely. Isn't that a little bit of a difference?

So if the phase spider tried to use the trick again in subesequent rounds, you wouldn't let it treat enemies as flatfooted anymore?

In the case of the Phase Spider, nobody has any inkling that there is a predator hunting for them until it's suddenly there and strikes - while in a combat situation, especially one that is messy and difficult to assess, you must basically be ready for anything

I don't like where the idea of characters in combat being ready for anything leads. Can a rogue not use bluff to distract, then hide behind some cover to set up a snipe the next round? I mean, if you're going to expect anything in the chaos of combat, you're not going to bloody take your eyes off the rogue, and certainly would be on guard if he just vanished suddenly, right?

Sorry, that's just...not a place I want my game to head...

 

[Eman Resu]

we house ruled this very problem. I didnt care about the rogue being hidden before he teleported we only cared that he teleported in sneak fashion, both hidden and quiet. Our rule was to make the Rogue roll both a hide and move silent ck, if both made, SA away. Now mind you we did not make the Rogue waste a whole round sneaking around, he just appeared right behind target and made these to rolls and attacked same round.

Eman Resu

 

[kitcik]

I pretty much agree with StreamoftheSky, although I like the Move Silently check - I guess if you teleported in behind the guy, but then made a noise before attacking, he could suddenly duck. Not sure the Hide is necessary since you're appearing behind the baddie out of nowhere.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, Move Silently check sounds fine, too. Also don't see the need to make two checks for it, and move silently seems much more appropriate.

 

[orion90000]

Also should be known if the teleport is a silent spell altogether or not. If there is a whoosh or a blip or smoke and brimstone (Nightcrawler) that could indicate where you are.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

This thread is reminding me of the final boss battle in Genji.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdG_2Ca6mhQ]YouTube - Let's Play Genji: Dawn of the Samurai Part 28 - The Final Boss[/ame]

 

[Eman Resu]

Yeah, Move Silently check sounds fine, too. Also don't see the need to make two checks for it, and move silently seems much more appropriate.

to us the hide ck was the rogue trying to position himself correctly, if he failed the ck, that means he teleported himself a little to far left of right and the "baddie" is alerted to his presence.

Once we determined the rogue arrived undetected the move silent roll/ck was asked for to see if the rogue manage to attack, well, silently.

So you see there was a thought or 2 behind the hide ck....make sense now?