Teleport and Sneak Attack

[StreamOfTheSky]

It makes sense. I'd be fine with just the move silently check, though. The rules are silent on how perfectly you can position yourself with a teleport (for a target square a shart distance away that you can see, I'd imagine it's pretty accurate, though), and there's no significant amount of time needed to "find" a weak spot to sneak attack anyway. If there was, would it be possible to sneak attack on an attack of opportunity?

 

[Sekhmet]

and there's no significant amount of time needed to "find" a weak spot to sneak attack anyway. If there was, would it be possible to sneak attack on an attack of opportunity?

As an extremely experienced melee combatant (USArmy in a Special Warfare unit), I can verify that a trained combatant can and will pick out and strike at any exposed weakness as it becomes available, which would be the real world equivalent of an AoO.

 

[Jhaelen]

If you were currently engaged in a melee with another person (which may be a hilarious concept among this board's usual participants), do you think you'd have any chance whatsoever to detect a person materializing immediately to your rear?

I always expect an ambush!

(Slightly) more seriously if I was a D&D character I wouldn't have a facing and therefore no 'rear'.

Why do think, teleportation involves a process that is not detectable by any means? I can imagine all kinds of weird sensations created by a creature teleporting around even if it isn't as 'flashy' as Nightcrawler's ability.

 

[Sekhmet]

I always expect an ambush!

(Slightly) more seriously if I was a D&D character I wouldn't have a facing and therefore no 'rear'.

Why do think, teleportation involves a process that is not detectable by any means? I can imagine all kinds of weird sensations created by a creature teleporting around even if it isn't as 'flashy' as Nightcrawler's ability.

While it is true that some DMs use the "Flashy magic" idea which is suggested in the DMG, some DMs use the non-Flashy type, where there is no special effect tied to any magic that do not have a flashy effect in their descriptor (ie: fireball).

What I've come across most often is DM's allowing the caster to choose whether or not to be flashy/add special effects to their spells, hence no woosh or fwoom or other type of individual magic effect.

 

[Aluvial]

You know, a nice part of this thread, was reading it while the video game fight was still playing in the background...

Anyhow, the next game session came and so I made a ruling.

Since the teleport comes from a move action, and because the spell's result, in and of itself, is no action (and is precise when the target square is viewed), then I said that you could sneak attack when you arrived.

I reason the move as any other invisible/hidden move. If the rogue could move 40' for some other reason, and was invisible, he would still get a sneak attack at the end of that move. If the rogue fired a bow from hidden/invisible within 30', he can see vital areas and sneak attack, so why not pop in with the boots and strike as well?

While there are some arguments that say Teleport makes you uneasy/unstable/disoriented, I don't see it that way, especially when your "arrival spot" is within sight. I hate to say it, but it reminds me of Dragonball Z. Pop out, pop in, strike... they never see it coming...

Again, the boots are a move action, 40' Teleport, 3/day.

Now, I might have a problem if the rogue wanted to teleport through a 10' wall (pick a direction and distance) and then happen to "appear" next to an enemy and then want to Sneak Attack. For me, it would depend if the characters were in or out of combat rounds.

If the rogue was aware of the enemy somehow and initiative was already rolled, I would allow it (for instance, creatures retreat through door, shut it, and then rogue teleports based on distance and direction only, happens to appear next to one with a standard action left.

If not in rounds, then you would have to roll for initiative/surprise once the rogue arrived to determine if he could not get the partial round sneak attack then.

Thanks for the dialog!

Aluvial

 

[Eman Resu]

It makes sense. I'd be fine with just the move silently check, though. The rules are silent on how perfectly you can position yourself with a teleport (for a target square a shart distance away that you can see, I'd imagine it's pretty accurate, though), and there's no significant amount of time needed to "find" a weak spot to sneak attack anyway. If there was, would it be possible to sneak attack on an attack of opportunity?

yah theres a feat that allows you to sneak attack on AoO

"Well, the teleporting PC appears from 40' away, while the Phase Spider comes from another plane entirely. Isn't that a little bit of a difference?"

err the next time I get stuck in the back I will be quick to ask the assialant "from where do you hail sir" or "where the F did you come from?"

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

yah theres a feat that allows you to sneak attack on AoO

If you meet the conditions for sneak attack (flanking or invisible, for example), you don't need a feat to SA on an AoO. I'm sure there are feats to do a SA on an AoO when you weren't previously meeting the conditions. I personally like a skill trick from C.Scoundrel that requires Quickdraw and says if you draw a weapon to make the AoO, the target becomes flatfooted to your attack. I think it's called Sudden Draw.

 

[Jhyarelle]

So say for example a rogue/psion uses Dimention Hop 3.0 power (Move act) and popped behind a baddy he was just right in front of. Is the baddy ff for the sake of sneak attacks. And can this be repeated as long as the user has the PSP to keep doin it to the same baddy.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

If it's 3.0 the Rogue could just take Quicker than the Eye feat from Song and Silence and get one SA per round anyway. Getting SA once/round is not that amazing.

 

[Aluvial]

So say for example a rogue/psion uses Dimension Hop 3.0 power (Move act) and popped behind a baddy he was just right in front of. Is the baddy ff for the sake of sneak attacks. And can this be repeated as long as the user has the PSP to keep doing it to the same baddy.

I'm not sure what PSP is... But, to the first part of your question, and as far as I'm concerned, yes, he can sneak attack if he "pops in" on a target. The target can't know that he'll be suddenly in that spot, and as long as the DM (me) doesn't add the idea that teleports can be disorienting (I don't think they are, but that is a condition of Dimension Door), then he can Sneak Attack.

The balancing item for me is the fact that the rogue is now left on top of the target. There are too many other factors (Attack Rolls, the pounding the rogue will get for stabbing target in the back) that will mean FAIL if the rogue use this item to "hop" about around a target getting blows in.

I think to make it plain, if (B) the rogue catches you flat-footed, then (C) he can Sneak Attack. (B) The creature is flat-footed to the rogue, if (A) the rogue "suddenly" is upon him (direction doesn't matter unless you play with facings). Therefore, IF A THEN C. Hypothetical Syllogism.

Aluvial