• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Teleportation

ferratus

Adventurer
Well, first off don't use the 3e version; use the 1e version instead, with attendant risks etc. and limitations on what you can take with you.

The 1e version is better, but with the flavour problem of why wizards don't bother to improve the spell. I can understand a spell being unreliable if it is wild magic, or draws upon a spiteful demon for power... but teleportation doesn't really have a reason for screwing up instead of game balance. Linked portals don't ask you to accept wonky flavour in exchange for game balance.

Also, you can't go "anywhere in the world": you can only go to somewhere you know about in - I think - any edition of the game. I have no real issue with teleporting back to town from an adventure, but I don't like teleporting from town back into said adventure.

Hence the scry in "scry-buff-teleport". If you can scry to see it, then you can teleport to it. If you can teleport to it, you can buff before hand. If scrying doesn't count, and you have to have been be actually physically present at one time, then teleporting back to a teleportation circle works just fine. Heck, smuggling in a teleportation circle could be fun in and of itself.


- the ability for at least the caster to get out of bad situations in a hurry. Party's in a no-win situation? Bail out, round up a rescue group, and go back in - travelling conventionally - to recover the bodies (I've seen this done)

Sure, so did I, but lower level spells do this too. Gaseous form, fly, invisibility, and all sorts of neener neener powers. Contingency clone and similar spells could also work.

- the ability for the caster to get back to home base fast, from anywhere

More of a bug than a feature for me I'm afraid. Nearly losing should matter, and be a setback. Teleporting home and charging up is pretty immersion breaking for me.

- the ability to cut out long stretches of boring play during travel

Griffons are more fun. That's the biggest problem, just when you are high enough level to tame wyverns and griffons, you have teleport which makes fantastic travel obselete.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

ferratus

Adventurer
Being able to teleport can allow you to get away from a TPK. It can also allow you to teleport to get help if your party is dying from poison or has been leveled drained and is facing a permanent level loss if you can't get to someone who can help you.

Again, there are many spells that allow for consequence-free retreat that don't have the problems of teleport. The game doesn't fall apart because the wizard failed his roll to learn that spell.

It can allow travel around the world. Sometimes the point is not the trip but the destination.

Sure, but the world becomes a very small place filled with nothing but set-piece combat encounters (kind of like an official 4e adventure :devil:) with teleport.

In the game we played in we would teleport all over the planet stopping demon gates from opening.

Why didn't you just use the demon gates, re-keying them to get open to the next demon gate?

The DM used the mechanic that if you failed your roll you teleported in an 100 mile area which lead to some interesting adventures.

Which is pretty much the same result you'd get with flying mounts or travelling by ship or whatever. Interesting adventures that are a break from the main plot.
 

Stormonu

Legend
I know this movie pretty well. Where is this teleportation (as opposed to Merlin mysteriously coming and going)?

I agree that the mysterious arrivals and disappearances of genies, angels, devils, faeries etc are the closest thing to widespread teleportation in classic fantasy.

That's one of the damnable traits about magicians - it's sometimes hard to tell when they use a bit of the "side door skadoo" versus actual magic (and in several cases, to that of a fleet animal as much or more than actual teleportation).

To answer your question, I've only seen the movie 2-3 times; I thought I remember Merlin teleporting out of the cave when he was finally awakened at the last battle, though I could be badly mistaken.

I still think teleportation as a mode of transport should remain in the magical arsenal, and while the portal-to-portal teleportation could be argued to cover most uses, as far as my playstyle I still desire the ability for off-the-cuff rapid transport/escape hatch - both available to PCs and NPCs.

And aren't blink dogs essentially a form of Hounds of Tlindros?
 

pemerton

Legend
To answer your question, I've only seen the movie 2-3 times; I thought I remember Merlin teleporting out of the cave when he was finally awakened at the last battle, though I could be badly mistaken.
He appears in dreams, and so comes and goes like a figment. In a fantasy RPG, I would model it through some sort of dream projection/magic jar ability.

And aren't blink dogs essentially a form of Hounds of Tlindros?
Maybe. What's a Hound of Tlindros? (Sounds Lovecraftian to me, but I may have a tin ear.)
 

Elf Witch

First Post
Again, there are many spells that allow for consequence-free retreat that don't have the problems of teleport. The game doesn't fall apart because the wizard failed his roll to learn that spell.



Sure, but the world becomes a very small place filled with nothing but set-piece combat encounters (kind of like an official 4e adventure :devil:) with teleport.



Why didn't you just use the demon gates, re-keying them to get open to the next demon gate?



Which is pretty much the same result you'd get with flying mounts or travelling by ship or whatever. Interesting adventures that are a break from the main plot.

Really tell that my sorcerer who got level drained by a vampire and then flubbed my teleport back to Greyhawk to get help for it. I didn't pick the spell so I was using a scroll that had only one. I ended up in the middle of farming country and not a high level cleric in site. It really kind of sucked losing that level. But them are the breaks when you choose a life of adventuring.


Also some of the spells you suggested in your other post does very little to help the entire party get away when the entire party is facing death. Most of the ones you suggested are single person only and if you have a party of six it would take six rounds to get everyone away.

Put that fits some worlds and some campaigns.

Because they didn't work that way. They opened from the abyss powered by evil magics that corrupted everything around it. They needed to be closed not only to stop the demons from pouring out onto pour world but corrupting and turning our plane into a mirror of the abyssal plane.

We were not the only team of gate closers the seers would feel the disturbance and we would be sent we had one scroll to use to get back. You have to understand this was a huge war that had been going on for years. It was an awesome campaign.

The reason we didn't build portals was in the past they had tried that and the demons and their allies had used to use them as well.


The point is very simple it is easier to take things out then put back in. As a DM I make these kind of decisions all the time. In my current game there is to raise dead only reincarnation. I have taken out teleport before as well as other spells. In my campaign not only is there no raise dead but you can summon anything that comes from another plane or do anything that involves another plane. Because this plane is locked off from the others by a powerful magical spell.

Just because you don't like teleport does not mean it does not have a place in the game rules.
 

Stormonu

Legend
Maybe. What's a Hound of Tlindros? (Sounds Lovecraftian to me, but I may have a tin ear.)

Whoops - that's Hound of Tindalos, and it's Lovecraftian. From their monster entry and picture in Call of Cthulhu, they inhabit "the angles of time" - seemingly able to appear/vanish (teleport/blink between) into corners with an angle of 120 degrees or less. Though they are apparently quiet evil....
 

JasonZZ

Explorer
Supporter
"Aren't blink dogs essentially a form of Hounds of Tindalos?"

Um...no. First of all, they're actually canines, instead of an otherworldly something that happens to be less uncanine than unanything else. Second, when last I checked, blink dogs had a default alignment of lawful good--they're moral, communal and compassionate creatures. I dare you to name *any* Lovecraftian creature that is moral or compassionate in a way that has meaning to humans. "Doglike and teleports (or seems to teleport)" is about as similar as they get.
 

JasonZZ

Explorer
Supporter
Also some of the spells you suggested in your other post does very little to help the entire party get away when the entire party is facing death. Most of the ones you suggested are single person only and if you have a party of six it would take six rounds to get everyone away.

Put that fits some worlds and some campaigns.

Because they didn't work that way. They opened from the abyss powered by evil magics that corrupted everything around it. They needed to be closed not only to stop the demons from pouring out onto pour world but corrupting and turning our plane into a mirror of the abyssal plane.

We were not the only team of gate closers the seers would feel the disturbance and we would be sent we had one scroll to use to get back. You have to understand this was a huge war that had been going on for years. It was an awesome campaign.

The reason we didn't build portals was in the past they had tried that and the demons and their allies had used to use them as well.


The point is very simple it is easier to take things out then put back in. As a DM I make these kind of decisions all the time. In my current game there is to raise dead only reincarnation. I have taken out teleport before as well as other spells. In my campaign not only is there no raise dead but you can summon anything that comes from another plane or do anything that involves another plane. Because this plane is locked off from the others by a powerful magical spell.

Just because you don't like teleport does not mean it does not have a place in the game rules.

Teleportation is probably one of those things that should be a "dial"--maybe two, one each for short- and long-distance. I'm not fond of the risk-roll style long-distance teleport; I actually like the "fixed gate" style; it blocks scry-and-fry without simply saying no or having a % chance of a TPK with one action.
 

Eldritch_Lord

Adventurer
The 1e version is better, but with the flavour problem of why wizards don't bother to improve the spell. I can understand a spell being unreliable if it is wild magic, or draws upon a spiteful demon for power... but teleportation doesn't really have a reason for screwing up instead of game balance. Linked portals don't ask you to accept wonky flavour in exchange for game balance.

D&D teleportation uses the Astral Plane, so its unreliable targeting (along with that of plane shift, shadow walk, and similar) are explained by the fact that the planes aren't connected point-to-point and going from one plane to another will always involve a bit of distance distortion.

Sure, but the world becomes a very small place filled with nothing but set-piece combat encounters (kind of like an official 4e adventure :devil:) with teleport.

I don't see why people seem to think that getting teleportation means just 'porting from one combat to another. One example of contemporary fantasy with prominent teleportation that no one has mentioned thus far is the Wheel of Time series. Partway through it the main characters rediscover the lost arts of Skimming (like shadow walk) and Traveling (a teleport/gate hybrid) and occasionally use them to move massive armies back and forth. But one main character, Rand, is a ruler of many different cities and peoples, and he uses Traveling to meet with other rulers, check in on his followers' training, bring supplies to refugees, and plenty of other non-combat-related uses.

------------------------------

Part of the issue with teleporting, I think, is that teleport has stayed the same for 1e through 3e while the game changed around it. It used to be that around "name level" (8-10) you got some land, trained some followers, and settled down, and that's about when you got teleport. You weren't teleport-ambushing mooks in a dungeon, you were visiting rulers on the far side of the world, administering multiple baronies, transporting massive amounts of material to build new wizard towers, and otherwise shifting from low-level tactical play to mid-level strategic play. Nowadays, without that explicit tonal shift from dungeon crawls to Logistics & Dragons, people just keep truckin' along with the killing of creatures and the taking of their stuff and expect the game to be "the same, but more so" when it really isn't and hasn't ever been.

Similarly, the examples that always, always, always get trotted out against free-target teleportation are LotR and Conan. In 3e, those are low-level stories, with most of the characters able to be statted out as 5th-6th level characters; in AD&D they're closer to low-to-mid-level stories given the slightly lower power curve, but the characters can still be statted out as 6th-10th level characters. Let's face it, "cross this wide ravine" and "climb this tall cliff" haven't ever been mid-level challenges, since casters have had low-level mobility spells like levitate, fly, phantasmal force and similar since 1e, all of which are available at or before 5th level, not to mention more creative solutions like charming flying creatures and such, and even with random spell acquisition it's exceedingly unlikely that no party caster has even a single mobility spell.

Another thing people tend to forget it that people in the world can take teleportation into account. Yes, people have said that they don't want to have to dimensional lock Mordor, but why is teleportation special? The giant eagles weren't used in LotR until the end because they'd be freaking obvious to the enemy and would be attacked by the Nazgul, and no one is complaining about the effort it would take to have Nazgul patrolling all the time. If Sauron could counter physical fliers, there's no reason he couldn't defend against teleporters as well--and if we're using all the D&D rules, the Ringwraiths could counter Frodo's invisibility with see invisibility and protect their mounts from Gandalf's daylight or searing light with darkness or dispel magic, the heroes could defend against the palantirii scrying with screen or detect scrying, and so forth. Magic isn't always the world-breaking monstrosity people often make it out to be unless the world is basically "medieval England plus magic" and NPCs act like magic is some new invention instead of something that's been around for millennia.

D&D has been inspired by many sources with varying levels of magic, but it has never modeled low-magic settings well past level 7ish. While power curves have fluctuated with different editions, D&D has pretty consistently done low magic or swords-and-sorcery at low levels, high fantasy at mid levels, and mythic at high levels--this is the game where early modules had people killing gods by level 15, after all. Trying to "fix" individual spells to preserve a low-magic or swords-and-sorcery feel past the low levels isn't really productive when the rest of the game doesn't feel low-magic; if you want to run a low-magic setting, better to spot-fix things for that rather than trying to change the tone of mid-to-high-level play for everyone.
 


Remove ads

Top