Tell me about C&C

[SavageRobby]

I've heard a smattering of good things about it, but not a lot of detail. Does it really seamlessly (and easily) integrate various versions of D&D? If you like it or hate it, tell about what it is and isn't.

I dropped D20 a few years ago for Savage Worlds, and love the SW system. I'm spoiled by its ease (especially for game mastering) and depth. But I'd love to pull out my old 1E stuff and use it in combination with my Scarred Lands and Goodman Games materials. And while Savage Worlds makes conversion easy, I'd love something even easier.



TIA.

 

[Technomancer]

It has a lot of the same stuff as D&D so it should look relatively familiar:

Same 6 attributes (STR, DEX, etc)
Hit Points
Saving Throws
Mostly the same classes and races
Same Vancian-ish magic system
Arcane/Divine Magic Split
Magic spell lists divided by level
Armor Class

It uses mechanics very similar to Third Edition (roll D20 + modifier vs difficulty number), but also has similarities to AD&D (instead of choosing feats and skills, you have abilities you get based on your class).

Any AD&D stuff should be useable with almost no work (mostly just switch to an ascending AC scale). Third Edition stuff is not quite as compatible, but should still be mostly useable.

 

[BluSponge]

Robby,

As one Savage to another, this is exactly the reason I have C&C on my bookshelf, too. Sometimes people just want to play old school D&D, and 3.5 just doesn't cut it for me as a GM. I loves me some Savage Worlds, but it doesn't feel the same (that's not a bad thing by a long shot).

There are some differences between C&C and D&D, not simply of a mechanical sort. The classes are a bit different here and there. Rangers don't get spells, for instance. Nothing earth shattering, but something to keep in mind. But other than that, C&C is designed to run old AD&D/D&D mods with almost no conversion work. Just switch the AC value and you are off and running. So yeah, it sounds like C&C might appeal to you.

All that said, I think there are a lot of savages out there who'd love to see a few old D&D gems converted. THAT shouldn't be tough either with the Fantasy Toolkits available.

Tom

 

[der_kluge]

Read the reviews on here for it. That should answer most of your questions.

 

[Treebore]

There is one member on the C&C boards who uses C&C for his groups D&D fix and Savage Worlds for all the other genre's his group likes to play.



Does it work seamlessly? Depends on your definition.

Lests just say if you adopt the SIEGE system of C&C you could use 1E character classes, races, spells and magic items.

If you like some versions of classes or Specialty Priests of 2E you can use them in your 1E game.

If your like me and like feats or the skills system, you can use that too. Either as is in the 3E books, or use SIEGE as it is meant to be and have characters make rolls to attempt "feat like actions", so that everyone essentially has the ability to attempt to do something feat like. Such as Cleave, Great Cleave, Whirlwind, etc... I even allow them to make a roll to attempt to get extra attacks.

So I would say "seamlessly" is a good way to describe it.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Agreed. If I had to descibe it in a nutshell, I'd say that it's the meeting point of all of the editions of Dungeons and Dragons. I've yet to run into a problem converting from any edition.

I also think the game itself is a heck of a lot of fun to run and play. It's as fast-moving as classic D&D, feels like 1e, and has the unified mechanic mentality (but on a happily and thankfully much more simplified scale) of 3e.

So I would say "seamlessly" is a good way to describe it.

 

[Particle_Man]

Saving throws vs. spells has a DC based on the spellcaster level. And there are no damage caps to spells.

Fireballs just got dangerous again!

C&C is easy to run and pretty much compatible with all versions of D&D. It is also easy to house rule (the most popular house rule usually involves modifying barbarian rage; I also handwave training rules, since that doesn't work too well with characters advancing levels at different times, and I simplify the equipment list). Character generation is a snap! You will take more time buying equipment than anything else.

It is archtype-heavy. The player's book doesn't even have multi-class rules (although again, the net abounds with houserules for this, and the Castle Keeper's Guide, due to come out in 2063, will have guidelines for this, as well as other suggested house rules and advice). Then again, with any race allowed to any class, and the prime system allowing one to emphasize certain ability scores (the swift dextrous swashbuckling fighter, for example), and the willingness to houserule a few things, I don't miss multi-classing, myself.

 

[Akrasia]

A brilliant review can be found here:

RPGnet review: http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/11/11008.phtml

 

[SavageRobby]

Okay, reviews read (even the brilliant ones). Sounds like its worth dropping the $30 to get and read through. Are the PH and MT the only books needed?

For those that play SW, would adding in Hindrances and background Edges be plausible? It sounds like it.

 

[S'mon]

For me the hardest thing with C&C was with letting go of some 3e assumptions, in C&C stats cap at 19, took me a good while to realise that's a necessary part of the system. Likewise it's built around levels 1-12 not 1-20. Primes are important as representing the focus of a character's skills & training, as Levels represent general experience & power, and work very well in practice. The systems in general are clearly designed by gamers, for gamers, rather than as exercises in number-crunching (something games from Rolemaster to Traveller have been guilty of at times).
The game requires players willing to trust and respect the GM. So, it also requires a competent and fair-minded GM; fair-mindedness moreso than in 3e, because you as GM are constantly being called on to set Challenge Levels (DCs) at your own discretion.
It's particularly well suited to low magic settings where magic is rare, but powerful and scary when it does appear - there are few spellcasting classes in the PHB, while saving throws vs non-prime stats are always tough.