Tell me about Monks in your world.
- Thread starter Samuel Leming
- Start date
Samuel Leming
First Post
Psion said:
In what I'm working on right now, a martial monk earns perfection of his body by achieving 20th level. If this character where somehow to go on to perfect his spirit or mind, he'd have achieved immortality. If this character were then to achieve perfection in mind, body, & spirit(An even more difficult task since he'll face stiff opposition) he'd ascend to divine rank zero. If a creature completes any two of eight possible paths or conditions of godhood he becomes immortal. Once he completes a third he can start trying to collect worshippers
Andor said:
I don't have that one & I don't know anyone local that has it. Can you fill me in on the details?
Sam
Doctor Shaft
First Post
Wow, that was the most depressing monk thread I have ever read.
I've personally never understood the overwhelmingly negative reaction that monks receive. And then the reactions like "fighter's should excel at everything!" As if they aren't good enough already.
When I play DnD, I always say "to heck with the regional likeness'" crap. Especially isnce half the time, we claim that we're following a "norse tradition" or "indian tradition" or some other cultural tradition. In reality, the government and landscape is copied, but the classes and the characters are essentially modern day people wearing DnD armor and taking on DnD class archetypes.
Very rarely is roleplaying ever about playing an authentic European character type. Sure, you base your fighting prowess and maybe your "religious" views on it. But otherwise, Tandry the epic dwarven fighter is really just Bob pretending to be some kind of modern day guy with real problems in a Hellenistic environment. Or the dwarves all coming with Irish accents. Come on.
While I accept the ideas many people present about exactly why they don't allow monks (suspension of disbelief issues, etc.), I don't know, it just disappoints me. I find I'd have a hard time enjoying a majority of the campaigns described with the "alternate" monks or the Franciscan monks. It's like - so we'll all play typical tin cans with swords that somehow break through tin cans, and we'll have typical wizards and sorcerors who aren't smart enough to wear tin-cans. But once anything remotely "asian" appears, the whole fantasy falls apart. I find that strange. I've never had a problem simply melding the two worlds together.
Perhaps the best campaign to do that was Forgotten Realms. While there was plenty of more emphasis on the typical Western world fantasy, it created a nice niche for monks. It didn't matter that they came from the "asian" fantasy type. They were there, and they had a role to play. All without completely disrupting the fantasy world.
Perhaps the best fun I've ever had is with a long term character that I've been playing on a particular FR campaign/world. I play a Monk of Ilmater. While the majority of characters involved in the campaign are of the western archetype, the monk at no point really "destroys' or diminishes everyone concepts. If anything, the character, because of his unique class features and background, kind of enhances things. Rather than having everyone touting about typical Western morals, ethics, and thoughts, you get a character that comes from a different set of goals and beliefs. So, we're not all Scottish dwarven jokes pretending to be in India.
I guess I'm the opposite from most of you in that I have a hard time believing in a great deal of the fighter classes and rogue classes. To me, while I enjoy having them around in some form or another, they can often become ridiculous. There physical feats and ability is rarely explained, they have no discipline or background attached to them. Basically, they are so free form - and yet so powerful. The monk is more structured and believable, like a wizard or sorceror, in my mind. In those three cases, at least some kind of cultural history is applied stringently upon them. Fighters are super "just cuz." Rogues have great back-stabbing abilities "just-cuz." That ruins the fantasy for me sometimes.
I don't like playing Oriental Adventures because once again, it's so focused on one particular culture or regional setting, that it's just not attractive. You don't have a "full world experience." At least it seems that way to me. It completely diminishes the chance of meeting an interesting cadre of characters. Instead, we're all the same "I wear lots of metal on my body" stereotypes. And some of them have an accent.
I've personally never understood the overwhelmingly negative reaction that monks receive. And then the reactions like "fighter's should excel at everything!" As if they aren't good enough already.
When I play DnD, I always say "to heck with the regional likeness'" crap. Especially isnce half the time, we claim that we're following a "norse tradition" or "indian tradition" or some other cultural tradition. In reality, the government and landscape is copied, but the classes and the characters are essentially modern day people wearing DnD armor and taking on DnD class archetypes.
Very rarely is roleplaying ever about playing an authentic European character type. Sure, you base your fighting prowess and maybe your "religious" views on it. But otherwise, Tandry the epic dwarven fighter is really just Bob pretending to be some kind of modern day guy with real problems in a Hellenistic environment. Or the dwarves all coming with Irish accents. Come on.
While I accept the ideas many people present about exactly why they don't allow monks (suspension of disbelief issues, etc.), I don't know, it just disappoints me. I find I'd have a hard time enjoying a majority of the campaigns described with the "alternate" monks or the Franciscan monks. It's like - so we'll all play typical tin cans with swords that somehow break through tin cans, and we'll have typical wizards and sorcerors who aren't smart enough to wear tin-cans. But once anything remotely "asian" appears, the whole fantasy falls apart. I find that strange. I've never had a problem simply melding the two worlds together.
Perhaps the best campaign to do that was Forgotten Realms. While there was plenty of more emphasis on the typical Western world fantasy, it created a nice niche for monks. It didn't matter that they came from the "asian" fantasy type. They were there, and they had a role to play. All without completely disrupting the fantasy world.
Perhaps the best fun I've ever had is with a long term character that I've been playing on a particular FR campaign/world. I play a Monk of Ilmater. While the majority of characters involved in the campaign are of the western archetype, the monk at no point really "destroys' or diminishes everyone concepts. If anything, the character, because of his unique class features and background, kind of enhances things. Rather than having everyone touting about typical Western morals, ethics, and thoughts, you get a character that comes from a different set of goals and beliefs. So, we're not all Scottish dwarven jokes pretending to be in India.
I guess I'm the opposite from most of you in that I have a hard time believing in a great deal of the fighter classes and rogue classes. To me, while I enjoy having them around in some form or another, they can often become ridiculous. There physical feats and ability is rarely explained, they have no discipline or background attached to them. Basically, they are so free form - and yet so powerful. The monk is more structured and believable, like a wizard or sorceror, in my mind. In those three cases, at least some kind of cultural history is applied stringently upon them. Fighters are super "just cuz." Rogues have great back-stabbing abilities "just-cuz." That ruins the fantasy for me sometimes.
I don't like playing Oriental Adventures because once again, it's so focused on one particular culture or regional setting, that it's just not attractive. You don't have a "full world experience." At least it seems that way to me. It completely diminishes the chance of meeting an interesting cadre of characters. Instead, we're all the same "I wear lots of metal on my body" stereotypes. And some of them have an accent.
mhacdebhandia
Explorer
Rokugan is not actually an official Wizards of the Coast product. It's AEG's supplement to Wizards' Oriental Adventures, basically correcting/altering/updating the material in the latter book to better reflect the Rokugan setting as it appeared in the original Legend of the Five Rings roleplaying game - though many fans of that game (which has two editions and is shortly to receive a third, as AEG has abandoned their d20 version) will dispute the accuracy of the conversion.Samuel Leming said:
Anyway, I like Rokugan a lot, and I think the inkyo is excellent for a more mystical and less martial version of the monk - very nearly a necessity for a comprehensive attempt at an Asian campaign - but I'll give you fair warning: AEG's design team set off on their own direction with their d20 Legend of the Five Rings material, paying little attention to the rest of the d20 community; their concern is clearly much more for converting Rokugan than for making their products truly relevant to the rest of the market. For example, they never undertook a "3.5" revision, even as a web enhancement.
Rokugan introduced a mystical class of feats called kiho feats, which are the inkyo's bread and butter. Instead of the monk's catalogue of martial abilities, the inkyo receives bonus kiho feats, which are as likely to have non-combat applications as to be directly useful in a fight. Worth checking out if you can acquire a copy somehow.
mhacdebhandia
Explorer
As for the place of monks; it depends on the campaign. Though I have never and would never run a pseudo-historical, or Tolkien-esque, or Gygaxian game of D&D, I would definitely exclude monks if they didn't fit the world. The last setting I designed, for example, I excluded paladins in favour of Arcana Unearthed's champions, because I felt that the paladin's chivalrous knight-on-a-noble-steed flavour didn't fit the island-hopping nature of the game, and its feudal aspects certainly didn't fit the late Roman republican government I envisioned for the city-state around which the game was set.
Here's a text dump of my write-up for one monk dojo. In my campaign, the western edge of the main land is where an "oriental" culture developed. Since then, they've integrated, but it allowed for monks. Anyway, here it is:
Tora No Do
------------------------------------------
Tora Meijin Lo Huang founded Tora No Do (“Way of the Tiger”) 200 hundred years when he was lost in the mountain hills. He searched for the way for hours when he caught glimpse of a white tiger. He followed the tiger, loosing sight of it, only to see it again as it led him. Finally he found himself on a road leading to his village. The tiger was no where to be seen. He arrived in his village to see invaders from the Dragon Clan attacking. He took cover, hoping to see an opening where he could save his people. From out of nowhere, the white tiger sprang into the center of the invading men and began tearing them to pieces. Lo Huang knew then that his time to strike had come. He leaped in among the men and fought with such ferocity that few of the Dragon Clan survived to run away. Villagers say that day that they saw only one tiger that day, and it was Lo Huang, savior of their village.
The Tora No Do style is an aggressive style preferring quick strikes against the enemy over advanced grappling, dodging and throws. Practitioners of this style are skilled in hunting their prey, having patience to wait for the opportune moment, and then to attack with full force and disregard for pain and injury, just as the tiger would.
As students advance in skill, they are recognized by being allowed to wear belts of the appropriate color. A student advances to a higher ranking by defeating a fellow student of equal ranking in an honor duel, the Shoushin Sainou. The rankings are as follows:
Ranking Monk Level Belt Title
Jukyu 1 White Tabite
Kukyu 2 Yellow Wakamono
Hachikyu 3 Yellow 1 tassel
Sichikyu 4 Yellow 2 tassels
Rokkyu 5 Green Wakamusha
Gokyu 6 Green 1 tassel
Yonkyu 7 Green 2 tassels
Sankyu 8 Brown Bushi
Nikyu 9 Brown 1 tassel
Ikkyu 10 Brown 2 tassels
Shodan 11 Black Sensai
Nidan 13 Black 1 tassel
Sandan 15 Black 2 tassels
Yondan 17 Black 3 tassels
Godan 19 Black 4 tassels
Rodan 21 Red & White Meijin
Sichidan 23 Red & White 1 tassel
Hachidan 25 Red & White 2 tassels Meijin Sensai
Kudan 27 Red & White 3 tassels
Judan 30 White 1 tassel Tora Meijin
One common misconception is that belt level rankings match a character’s level in Monk. The table above indicates an approximate Monk class level to a given belt level. Typically, a character must reach that level, before being allowed to participate in Shoushin Sainou. It is even possible for a character to be higher Monk level than belt level.
Basic Etiquette
Always bow before entering the dojo
Always remove shoes before entering a building (home or dojo)
Always bow to superior before speaking
Never interrupt a superior, wait to be acknowledged before beginning
Always bow when before leaving
Always address a superior by their title, not their name
The Shoushin Sainou
Each martial artist strives to attain mental and physical discipline. Their achievements are recognized by the Shoushin Sainou. It is a contest where all eligible students for a belt rank fight each other. The combat is non-lethal but brutal. The victorious student is promoted to the next level and the master puts a new belt or adds a tassle to the student’s belt. Some Shoushin Sainou have many students vying for the honor, and each round pits two students against each other in elimination tournament style.
The Batsu Fumeiyo
Honor is what binds society. Honor is gained through loyalty, duty, respect, and service to others. When that honor is forsaken, the Batsu Fumeiyo must be undertaken. As there are four ways of wind, there are four paths to honor, thus there are four parts to restoring one’s honor: Sacrifice, Pain, Humiliation, and Redemption. The Batsu Fumeiyo is required of one who has committed the greatest crimes. Few survive the ritual, but all have their honor redeemed.
Basic Combat Techniques (below black belt):
1. Punch
2. Reverse Punch
3. Back Fist
4. Spinning Back Fist
5. Uppercut
6. Reverse Uppercut
7. Throat Strike
8. Ridge Hand Strike
9. Reverse Ridge Hand Strike
10. Knife Hand Strike
11. Palm Strike
12. Double Palm Strike
13. Clenched Fist Strike
14. Elbow Strike
15. Round House Kick
16. Side Kick
17. Front Kick
18. Thrust Kick
19. Stomp Kick
20. Hook Kick
21. Axe Kick
22. Crescent Kick
23. Spinning Back Kick
24. Spinning Side Kick
25. Spinning Round House Kick
26. Spinning Hook Kick
27. Spinning Crescent Kick
28. Jump Front Kick
29. Jump Side Kick
30. Jump Round House Kick
Basic Blocks:
1. Overhead Forearm block
2. Middle Forearm Block
3. Downward Forearm Block
4. Double Forearm Block
5. Knife Hand Block
6. Double Knife Hand Block
7. Leg Check
8. Knee Block
9. Wrist Block
10. Double Wrist Block
11. High X Block
12. Low X Block
Dojos of Tora No Do
There are several dojos that teach the Way of the Tiger. They were formed by former students of Lo Huang and they have spread to distant lands.
Dojo of the White Claw
One such dojo is the Dojo of the White Claw. It is led by Meijin Shin Yu. The dojo teachs the philosophy of the Tao-Dan. There are 50 students at this dojo, of various ranks. Many of Master Yu’s pupils join the Navy Corps to serve as marines. The Dojo of the White Claw is located in the Wu Kyen province on the Tarais Island.
Resources:
http://japanese.about.com/blbeginkanji.htm
http://www.karatebc.org/history/
Janx
Tora No Do
------------------------------------------
Tora Meijin Lo Huang founded Tora No Do (“Way of the Tiger”) 200 hundred years when he was lost in the mountain hills. He searched for the way for hours when he caught glimpse of a white tiger. He followed the tiger, loosing sight of it, only to see it again as it led him. Finally he found himself on a road leading to his village. The tiger was no where to be seen. He arrived in his village to see invaders from the Dragon Clan attacking. He took cover, hoping to see an opening where he could save his people. From out of nowhere, the white tiger sprang into the center of the invading men and began tearing them to pieces. Lo Huang knew then that his time to strike had come. He leaped in among the men and fought with such ferocity that few of the Dragon Clan survived to run away. Villagers say that day that they saw only one tiger that day, and it was Lo Huang, savior of their village.
The Tora No Do style is an aggressive style preferring quick strikes against the enemy over advanced grappling, dodging and throws. Practitioners of this style are skilled in hunting their prey, having patience to wait for the opportune moment, and then to attack with full force and disregard for pain and injury, just as the tiger would.
As students advance in skill, they are recognized by being allowed to wear belts of the appropriate color. A student advances to a higher ranking by defeating a fellow student of equal ranking in an honor duel, the Shoushin Sainou. The rankings are as follows:
Ranking Monk Level Belt Title
Jukyu 1 White Tabite
Kukyu 2 Yellow Wakamono
Hachikyu 3 Yellow 1 tassel
Sichikyu 4 Yellow 2 tassels
Rokkyu 5 Green Wakamusha
Gokyu 6 Green 1 tassel
Yonkyu 7 Green 2 tassels
Sankyu 8 Brown Bushi
Nikyu 9 Brown 1 tassel
Ikkyu 10 Brown 2 tassels
Shodan 11 Black Sensai
Nidan 13 Black 1 tassel
Sandan 15 Black 2 tassels
Yondan 17 Black 3 tassels
Godan 19 Black 4 tassels
Rodan 21 Red & White Meijin
Sichidan 23 Red & White 1 tassel
Hachidan 25 Red & White 2 tassels Meijin Sensai
Kudan 27 Red & White 3 tassels
Judan 30 White 1 tassel Tora Meijin
One common misconception is that belt level rankings match a character’s level in Monk. The table above indicates an approximate Monk class level to a given belt level. Typically, a character must reach that level, before being allowed to participate in Shoushin Sainou. It is even possible for a character to be higher Monk level than belt level.
Basic Etiquette
Always bow before entering the dojo
Always remove shoes before entering a building (home or dojo)
Always bow to superior before speaking
Never interrupt a superior, wait to be acknowledged before beginning
Always bow when before leaving
Always address a superior by their title, not their name
The Shoushin Sainou
Each martial artist strives to attain mental and physical discipline. Their achievements are recognized by the Shoushin Sainou. It is a contest where all eligible students for a belt rank fight each other. The combat is non-lethal but brutal. The victorious student is promoted to the next level and the master puts a new belt or adds a tassle to the student’s belt. Some Shoushin Sainou have many students vying for the honor, and each round pits two students against each other in elimination tournament style.
The Batsu Fumeiyo
Honor is what binds society. Honor is gained through loyalty, duty, respect, and service to others. When that honor is forsaken, the Batsu Fumeiyo must be undertaken. As there are four ways of wind, there are four paths to honor, thus there are four parts to restoring one’s honor: Sacrifice, Pain, Humiliation, and Redemption. The Batsu Fumeiyo is required of one who has committed the greatest crimes. Few survive the ritual, but all have their honor redeemed.
Basic Combat Techniques (below black belt):
1. Punch
2. Reverse Punch
3. Back Fist
4. Spinning Back Fist
5. Uppercut
6. Reverse Uppercut
7. Throat Strike
8. Ridge Hand Strike
9. Reverse Ridge Hand Strike
10. Knife Hand Strike
11. Palm Strike
12. Double Palm Strike
13. Clenched Fist Strike
14. Elbow Strike
15. Round House Kick
16. Side Kick
17. Front Kick
18. Thrust Kick
19. Stomp Kick
20. Hook Kick
21. Axe Kick
22. Crescent Kick
23. Spinning Back Kick
24. Spinning Side Kick
25. Spinning Round House Kick
26. Spinning Hook Kick
27. Spinning Crescent Kick
28. Jump Front Kick
29. Jump Side Kick
30. Jump Round House Kick
Basic Blocks:
1. Overhead Forearm block
2. Middle Forearm Block
3. Downward Forearm Block
4. Double Forearm Block
5. Knife Hand Block
6. Double Knife Hand Block
7. Leg Check
8. Knee Block
9. Wrist Block
10. Double Wrist Block
11. High X Block
12. Low X Block
Dojos of Tora No Do
There are several dojos that teach the Way of the Tiger. They were formed by former students of Lo Huang and they have spread to distant lands.
Dojo of the White Claw
One such dojo is the Dojo of the White Claw. It is led by Meijin Shin Yu. The dojo teachs the philosophy of the Tao-Dan. There are 50 students at this dojo, of various ranks. Many of Master Yu’s pupils join the Navy Corps to serve as marines. The Dojo of the White Claw is located in the Wu Kyen province on the Tarais Island.
Resources:
http://japanese.about.com/blbeginkanji.htm
http://www.karatebc.org/history/
Janx
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